Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA22629 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:14:37 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745902@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: point of memetic saturation Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:12:33 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Interesting questions.
I think it's fair to say that we are already in the process of designing and
building new meme machines, through ever more sophisticated efforts at
artificial intelligence. At one level the avowed intent is to better
understand human intelligence, at another to practically help us with
complex problems, but at another level there is also- perhaps- memetic
driving. Memes are making us create not only more and more outlets for meme
transmission (e.g. 3rd generation mobile phones), but also new receptacles
for memes in artificial intelligence- although we are some way I assume from
achieving that.
As to whether memes would survive humanity disappearing, well I think there
is that possiblity. As I've said before, there are long dead civilisations
that are studied through their artifacts, especially their writing. If
humans died out leaving some kind of artifacts behind them then memes could
still survive, although it would be a long shot (given that the recipients
of dead human memes would have to be alien visitors happening upon Earth).
I think in principle though, once you have representation systems
independent of the human body, then memes can persist.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Kenneth Van Oost
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2000 8:27 pm
> To: memetics
> Subject: point of memetic saturation
>
> Dear all,
>
> Cruising thru' some webpages about Memetic Engineering I stumbled on the
> following article " Selfish Memes and Stranger Things: Fiends or Friends
> " by
> Wes Biggs. ( http://www.cacas.org/~wes/s4b/03-selfish_49d.html)
>
> There are a few terms mentioned I personally like a lot,
>
> " Media are the sex cells of culture ", admit, it have a nice ring to it !
>
> But, the term that moved me is the next,
>
> quotation,
>
> " When we reach A POINT OF MEMETIC SATURATION, with all ideas on the
> table of collective consciousness, will we enter a new paradigm of
> evolution, or
> are we, like Frankenstein, destined to have our creations haunt us with
> unrelen-
> ting demands for life that they cannot have ? " end quotation, used by
> permission.
>
> I think this is a very good line of questioning, and I would like to start
> up the
> disccussion, if you all want of course, with...
>
> _Point of memetic saturation ! Hmm, I think there are two sides,
>
> First, a point of saturation as in our brain can take no more !! Can we
> genetical
> evolve then further to host more memes !?
>
> Secondly, a point of saturation as in there are no ideas left to be '
> memed ' !!
> There are no ideas left to come up. Everything is said and done !
>
> Questions,
> _if we all die will the memetic evolution continue !? if so, how !?
> _will we enter a new paradigm of evolution !? If so, which !?
> _Will they haunt us !? if so, why !?
> _will we be able to communicate with that ' kind of new life ' !? How !?
>
> The author of the text will try to join into the discussion.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kenneth
>
> ( I am, because we are) friendly
>
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