Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA11145 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 3 Jul 2000 13:42:49 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458F2@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades/memetic engineering Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 13:40:42 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
One of the interesting things is how (or why) things become taboos, despite
their prevalence in human behaviour.
Homosexuality has gone, for example, from one extreme to the other in terms
of social acceptance (e.g. Ancient Spartan society), to taboo, to our
current era of greater tolerance and acceptance. Incest was the preferred
reproductive method of Egyptian pharohs, but is now a major taboo etc. etc.
Now, it seems to me, that the tolerance or condemnation of such behaviours
at various times is probably memetic in nature.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Kenneth Van Oost
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 8:50 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Cons and Facades/memetic engineering
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 1:11 PM
> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades/memetic engineering
>
>
> >
> > The problem with your holodeck idea, is that of the apparent
> absoluteness
> of
> > the child sex taboo- paedophiles' desires are unlikely to be tolerated
> in
> > any form. Besides, most people (erroneously IMHO) don't buy the
> catharsis
> > argument for conventional media, preferring to assume that media incite
> > people rather than sate their desires- the more 'real' the experience
> > offered the more inciteful.
> >
> > Vincent
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Kenneth Van Oost
> > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 7:22 pm
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Subject: Re: Cons and Facades/memetic engineering
> >
> > > > Kenneth Van Oost made this comment not too long ago --
> > > >
> > > > >But I also wish that you give us the time to prove that the idea of
> > > memetic
> > > > >engineering can benefit other people's needs and not our own.
> > > >
> > > > This is an interesting sidebar to the objections any of us may have
> > > about
> > > > the phrase 'memetic engineering', in that, where do we find the line
> > > > between people's needs and our own? And how, having found it, do we
> walk
> > > >
> > > it?
> > >
> > > Wade,
> > >
> > > People' s needs!
> > > Do you know Megan's Law !? Are you American !?
> > > If not, let me summarize. In a nutshell, local authorities are due to
> let
> > > the
> > > people of a district know if/ when/ where a sex-offender is gonna live
> in
> > > your neighbourhood. What are the moral objections here !?
> > > Who is getting frustrated, you or the offender who where ever he/ she
> goes
> > > is always pointed one finger. He can't find a job, has no home, no
> place
> > > to
> > > be.
> > > Do you think this is the ultimate solution !?
> > > I do not !
> > >
> > > But I don't state the following is the ultimate solution either, but
> one.
> > > In my opinion a sex- offender has no ' place ' where he can turn to if
> the
> > > need is to high. If you are a drunk you go to a pub, if you like speed
> you
> > > go the racetrack, but for sex, yes you can go to the whores, but that
> is
> > > not the kind of sex the offender wants. He wants rape, childabuse and
> > > in the extreme murder.
> > > I know, I know, it is very extreme, but I go always straight for the
> heart
> > > !
> > >
> > > So, I propose you have a look what ' Holodeck- Technology ' has to
> offer.
>
> Vincent, in addition to your add.
>
> Of course, the practical application of the Holodeck technology will have
> major problems, not to say huge problems, not in the least at the social
> level but also at the political, religious and cultural level.
> But I am confidient that people, like we did before with abortion, (at
> least
> at some level) see through the obstacles and will open up their mind for
> future ideas.
> In that respect the idea that anyone is not only genetical unique but also
> memetical is a major advantage in that area.
> We have to convince people that as we who like beer and watch TV there
> are people who like to watch little children.
> Perhaps this is not quit the place to discuss such matters, if you want I
> will do that, but in my opinion, as the pile of info I have about these
> matters
> suggest ' childabuse, rape and murder are not so abnormal as it seems '.
>
> " One out of three men is physical abused by an adult and one out of eight
> woman is ever as a child sexually abused " .
>
> " Serious physical violence (such as beating,stranglation, biting, burning
> or
> assaulting) has been experienced by 11% of the boys and by 9% of the
> girls. 31 % of the men and 21% of the woman said physical to have been
> abused. 13% of the girls and 4% of the boys said to have been sexual
> abused. "
> Those figures are mentioned in a rapport by the Canadian Mc Masters
> University (1997) by Harriet Mc Millan.For more detail I have to look it
> up.
>
> Not that this proves anything but in the long run I have doubts that
> people
> will stay that ignorant.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Kenneth
>
> (I am, because we are) again one step closer
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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