Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA28012 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:48:15 +0100 From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 05:02:28 +1000 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIIEMMCGAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458CD@inchna.stir.ac.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Vincent Campbell
> Sent: Monday, 19 June 2000 8:57
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth
>
>
> WE're clearly not using truth in the same sense here. I don't agree that
> the only factor in our perceiving certain information as the truth being
> ownership.
I think the SOURCE of the feeling is tracable to the method of determining
ownership through territorial mapping using waypoints marked by us.
For example, my password to get onto my e-mail package is mine
> but it is not the truth.
to you it is, to all others it isnt since *their* password is 'the truth'.
Truth is directly tied to the feeling of 'correct' vs 'incorrect', 'right'
vs 'wrong'.
Natural selection, on the other hand is a truth,
> but it doesn't belong to me.
>
yes it does, as a belief system which you demonstrate with the above
statement that you feel that it is a fact and outside of you, the point is
it is a cultural truth and you being part of that culture will share that
truth; the feeling of 'correctness'.
> Similarly territory and truth are not the same either.
I emphasised that the sense originated with territorial mappings and as such
this sense of 'mine vs not-mine' has been abstracted to 'correct/incorrect'
and eventually into the syntax processes we use in both spoken language and
written (includes logic, mathematics etc)
Territories are
> things to be protected by their owners, truths are things to be passed
> outside personal territories.
>
.....and into cultural territories where these truths are protected by the
owners etc you can scale truths into:
personal
cultural
universal
The latter span all cultures giving a universal sense of 'correctness'. I
think you are being too local, too personal, in dealing with the concept of
truth.
> Also, in your final comment- survival for who or what? The meme, or the
> person?
>
when it gets down to the nitty-gritty it is the meme that is sacrificed. In
concentration camps and prison camps high ideals (memes) were the first
things to go as the battle for survival takes over UNLESS you formed a group
or else a rigid degree of self-discipline and so some memes acted to keep
you alive whilst others killed you; context was the determining factor (as
it always is in evolutionary or devolutionary processes).
best,
Chris.
>
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