From: Chris Taylor (Christopher.Taylor@man.ac.uk)
Date: Thu 19 Jun 2003 - 10:10:38 GMT
Oh, okidoke :)
Richard Brodie wrote:
> Sorry...your thought process is along the lines he writes about in this
> book.
>
> Richard Brodie
> www.memecentral.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Chris Taylor
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:31 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Origin of memes
>
>
> And he said something other than what I suggested or what?
>
> Richard Brodie wrote:
>
>>Plotkin's "Darwin Machine" addresses this question.
>>
>>Richard Brodie
>>www.memecentral.com
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
>>Of Chris Taylor
>>Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:37 AM
>>To: memetics
>>Subject: Origin of memes
>>
>>
>>Hi. I'm a much more extreme meme-ist than most here I think, because
>>most (I would surmise) see memes as a high order phenomenon, whereas I
>>prefer to think of memes (maybe I need a better word) as fundamental to
>>all but our basest animal stuff (face recognition, fear, the stuff you
>>can't lie about because it is part of the hard-wired honesty required
>>for social living). In essence I see (metaphorically speaking) atomic
>>level patterns, which are built into higher order structures (memes of
>>varying levels of complexity, up to memeplexes). These structures vary
>>wildly between people depending on the structuring of the meme(plexe)s
>>within them (what is a 'black box', and what has internal structure
>>etc., the general approach to structure [range, depth, branching] and so
>>on), various aspects will vary widely.
>>
>>This leads me to (inter alia) two conclusions:
>>1) There are memes in our minds (many of which will be too 'small' to
>>ever be performed as such)
>>2) The type and degree of structuring of these memes varies
>>
>>So performances (i.e. phenotypic-level copying) will vary, and the memes
>>in our minds will also differ (in all cases) to some degree because we
>>try to knock up things that replicate a phenotype, with no real idea of
>>(or hope of replicating) internal structure.
>>
>>Now the reason I mention this is to ask the question how did memes come
>>into existence - how did we move from programmed behaviour to acquired?
>>
>>I wonder if predator's search images provide us with a selected-for
>>starting point, or whether we need to go lower - note that I don't
>>consider operant conditioning to produce memes. The reason I picked
>>search images is that organisms tend to be programmed to spot movement,
>>but if your prey isn't moving, how can you pick them out from the
>>environment? So if you factor in the fact that we are 'looking' at a
>>sensory encoding of the world (enhanced edges, movement detection etc.)
>>then if the search image is applied, what appears to be just more
>>pattern will actually stand out from its background in the mind of (say)
>>a bird, because the search image is already separate from the background
>>in the internal representation. Big advantage in response to freezing +
>>crypsis by prey, therefore selectable. I'm not sure that's entirely
>>clear but I'd like someone to offer an opinion because there seems to be
>>little discussion about how we _got_ to a memetic world.
>>
>>Cheers, Chris.
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Chris Taylor (chris@bioinf.man.ac.uk)
>> http://pedro.man.ac.uk/ »people»chris
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>>
>>===============================================================
>>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>>
>>
>>
>>===============================================================
>>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>>
>
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Chris Taylor (chris@bioinf.man.ac.uk)
> http://pedro.man.ac.uk/ »people»chris
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Taylor (chris@bioinf.man.ac.uk) http://pedro.man.ac.uk/ »people»chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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