Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA04525 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:12:08 +0100 From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 00:25:55 +1000 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCICELDCGAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458C4@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Vincent Campbell
> Sent: Thursday, 15 June 2000 9:47
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades
>
>
> I see what you're saying here Lawrence.
>
> I suppose partly, what I'm thinking of here is something which I think is
> central to the memetic process, and that is the general desire we all have
> to pass on 'the truth' whenever we think we know what that is. Of course,
> sometimes we don't want to tell people, but to those people we
> like, or are
> family we usually have a very strong urge to tell people 'the truth' (I
> guess this might be an inclusive fitness thing).
....and so the link of 'truth' to ownership and territory (that includes
family)..... there is also the 'mine is bigger than yours' exercise.
>
> This applies to all areas of life, so to give jsut two examples, you get
> religions with their missionaries, and you get evolutionary biology with
> their multitude of best-sellers. This latter group interest me very much.
> As a non-scientist, my knowledge of evolution comes mainly from
> the likes of
> Dawkins and Gould, and other writers, but it's recently struck
> me, with the
> success of Stephen Jones 'Almost Like A Whale' (his rewriting of
> the origin
> of species, which is called something very different in the US,
> but I can't
> remember what), just how many popular science books there are about how
> wonderful/fantastic/brilliant Darwin's theory of natural selection is.
>
> I suppose there are two elements to this. First, what is it about certain
> information that it can induce our notion of it being the truth?
The information has a 'pointedness' about it, a finality. It acts like a
waypoint marker in that it gives us direction, perspective, we feel we know
where we are. The emotional feeling is linked to correctness and to syntax,
the path is 'right'. The concept of abduction fits in here where, given a
particular pattern which we assume has meaning., we scan through a list of
different contexts until we get a match and that feels 'correct'. It may not
be so, go further and you may get similar or better matches - some do go on,
some dont depending on a combination of experience/persona.
> Second,
> what is it about 'the truth' that we generally feel a strong
> desire to pass
> it on to other people?
See earlier, since a truth is linked to ownership and so territory we can
either (a) show it off or (b) pass it on for the benefit of the group as a
whole, or (c) withhold it within the group, secret society etc, deny the
enemy...
best,
Chris.
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