Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA03645 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:48:26 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458C4@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:46:35 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I see what you're saying here Lawrence.
I suppose partly, what I'm thinking of here is something which I think is
central to the memetic process, and that is the general desire we all have
to pass on 'the truth' whenever we think we know what that is. Of course,
sometimes we don't want to tell people, but to those people we like, or are
family we usually have a very strong urge to tell people 'the truth' (I
guess this might be an inclusive fitness thing).
This applies to all areas of life, so to give jsut two examples, you get
religions with their missionaries, and you get evolutionary biology with
their multitude of best-sellers. This latter group interest me very much.
As a non-scientist, my knowledge of evolution comes mainly from the likes of
Dawkins and Gould, and other writers, but it's recently struck me, with the
success of Stephen Jones 'Almost Like A Whale' (his rewriting of the origin
of species, which is called something very different in the US, but I can't
remember what), just how many popular science books there are about how
wonderful/fantastic/brilliant Darwin's theory of natural selection is.
I suppose there are two elements to this. First, what is it about certain
information that it can induce our notion of it being the truth? Second,
what is it about 'the truth' that we generally feel a strong desire to pass
it on to other people?
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Lawrence H. de Bivort
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 12:11 pm
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades
>
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, Vincent Campbell wrote:
>
> >Information and truth are not the same thing. You specifically said the
> >truth, which surely means more than simple information like passwords- it
> >implies value for one thing. A password is not a truth claim, 'the world
> is
> >flat' is a truth claim.
>
> Good point. I accept your distinction.
>
> >Truth claims surely only have value if they can be communicated and thus
> >tested in some way or other (not necessarily experimentally, but also
> >philosophically, or as a test of faith perhaps).
>
> Without repeating the various reasons that might underlie _not_
> communicating a truth, it is not clear to me that truth claims only have
> value if communicated, though perhaps the question is one of to whom it
> must be communicated. A truth claim may be able to be tested without being
> first communicated. For instance, a person could develop a truth claim,
> and then test it by him/her-self, or with a small team. The experiment
> might never assert the claim itself, but be designed with it implicitly in
> mind, so that the results of the experiment generate speak directly to the
> value of the claim. In science, I think this happens fairly
> often. Hypotheses don't always state the larger thinking or truth claim of
> the experimenter; hypotheses may state well toned-down or sub-elements of
> the truth claim. (Or even created after the experiment, when there is
> greater clarity about what the experiment actually revealed. <smile>)
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Lawrence
>
>
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> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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