Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA03337 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:17:23 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458AA@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Jabbering ! Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:14:10 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Patience Chuck!
The series is structured around 6 programmes, each going further back in
time from a start point of The Rocket's maiden journey in 1830. The second
programme, just screened, went 100 years back, the next goes 250 years back
where colonialism and global navigation will be discussed (and more
particularly why the British came to dominate at that time), as so on back
(if I remember rightly) to some 10000 years or so and the start of agrarian
societies.
I guess the series may surface on the Discovery channel at some point for
non-British contributors to the list.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Chuck
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Monday, June 5, 2000 12:25 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Jabbering !
>
> To find out why English social clubs differed at that point, you have to
> go
> further back in english history. But two of the distinctive parts of
> English
> history are its island status and its racial diveresity (as opposed to
> Japan).
> Again, however, exploitation of resources played a big role. Take, for
> example,
> how english colonialism and its increased access to resources changed the
> nature
> of english society!! And colonialism itself was probably pushed by
> shortages in
> the home country.
>
> Vincent Campbell wrote:
>
> > I saw the programme.
> >
> > I was particularly interested in two things, first the comment about the
> > British midlands being called the Black country, and rituals and dress
> sense
> > becoming heavily imbued with black in the late 18th and 19th century,
> > because of the dark satanic mills, and the mass use of coke.
> >
> > Second, the theory that what made Britain different from say France and
> > Germany in terms of the Industrial Revolution occuring in the UK rather
> than
> > elsewhere was the social structure of English social clubs.
> >
> > Again the utility things comes down to differences between
> material/manifest
> > uses which tend to be more fixed (although like your knife as a
> screwdriver
> > or vice versa, shows they're never totally fixed), and ideational/latent
> > uses (such as indicators of status etc.) which are highly varied.
> >
> > Vincent
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Robin Faichney
> > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Sent: Monday, June 5, 2000 10:09 am
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Subject: RE: Jabbering !
> > >
> > > On Mon, 05 Jun 2000, Vincent Campbell wrote:
> > > >Ask people what a tie is for though- what's its functionality? What
> is
> > > the
> > > >bit of material under your shirt collar supposed to do? I don't
> think
> > > most
> > > >people would know, and would instead ascribe far more less manifest
> > > >(although no less important) functions like those you mention. The
> > > problem
> > > >then becomes one of arbitrariness- why does a strange bit of cloth
> around
> > > >one's neck offer all these other (social) functions that they indeed
> do?
> > > >
> > > >Perhaps this is the distinctive element of cultural, as oppsed to say
> > > >technological, artefacts, in that their (apparent) utility is highly
> > > >flexible hence behaviours survive long after their origins have been
> > > >forgotten.
> > >
> > > Tools can be extremely flexible. Just ask anyone who ever used a
> knife as
> > > a screwdriver! Though there's obviously a distinction to be drawn
> between
> > > practical and social/psychological utility. But the main point I want
> to
> > > make is that, on any broad definition of culture, i.e. not just fine
> art,
> > > technology is part of it. That's what the "industrial evolution"
> thing is
> > > about, isn't it?
> > >
> > > Talking of which, the second instalment of the show we both saw last
> week
> > > was on last night, don't know if you caught it, but again, I don't
> think
> > > there was one reference to natural resource depletion. Plenty to
> economic
> > > motivation, though! And contrasts with social conditions in
> continental
> > > Europe, where innovations tended to be viewed as toys for the rich,
> rather
> > > than commodities and income generators for the middle class. England
> > > really was a nation of shopkeepers!
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robin Faichney
> > >
> > > ==============================================================This was
> > > distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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