From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sun 24 Nov 2002 - 20:04:46 GMT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> > The US does not want to rule other countries; it just wants their
> > peoples to be free to form them and democratically choose their
> > leaders on a regular basis, and believes that, if this is the case,
> > that their
> populaces,
> > out of the conjunction of self-interest and economic
> > interdependence, will learn how to play fairly and well together,
> > and will direct their respective governmental representatives to do
> > the same (much as Europe has).
>
> This made my hair stand one way ! ( And I got a lot...)
> I ain 't gonna in discussion with you Joe about this or for the whole
> the thread for that matter, but this is my personal, though European
> view, and IMO you are wrong, completely wrong ! You really don 't
> understand !
>
> IMO, you're equal worse to what you reproach us or the Radical Islam !
> You are biased, as communism and fascism in the past, in the notion
> that one other interpretation is no due ! You have a take on
> democracy, like I always suspected you have, that comes close to what
> is a " religious belief ". Freedom, equality, tolerance and whatever
> are the tokens of your belief, democracy is your monotheistic God !
> With that you exclude any other possible take on what is reality out
> there in the real world. The real world is Joe, that Radical Islam
> oppose your American views and you can 't simply have that ! You
> interpretate history like it is American due, Bush on 9/ 11 noticed
> that the war against terrorism was the only way for America to come in
> the clear with its own 200 year old faith_ its devine destiny....
> Bush and other American presidents are Gods own representatives on
> the
> democratic earth where the Pope is for Christianity.
>
> From that moment on, the whole set of what is the worlds reality made
> room from only one memeset, that of America. Oh, but that process is
> since a long time underway, though, from the moment on the US was
> founded, Americans made for themselves clear that upon their religious
> bias of creatonism they will make the world a better place. And that
> notion works thru' everything you do, you want still to create, the US
> wants to create a world according to its own old fashion religious
> views and the US can't stand that other peoples are not that keen on
> that prospect.
>
> But Joe, it is not Islam that is to blame, but indeed Radical Islam or
> what is known as the Political Islam. That is not a thing of Islam
> itself but also a product of the Western world_ you seem to ignore the
> fact that within the Western world the notion of Good opposites Evil
> and this notion changed over the years and ended up in Pluralism and
> Democracy. Yet you fail to feel that Khomeini and bin Laden are just
> such Western figures as Hitler was one, they too set up a political/
> religious system wherein good opposites Evil with no inbetweens. You
> still cling on to that opposite view of Good and Evil !
>
> To go to battle Islam uses the Koran, America uses an alledged
> notion that peoples wants to be free, the US uses Democracy !
> But in both cases the use is political biased, and therefor you use it
> as an anti- political system, you dismiss the differences and let that
> be now just what democracy is all about ! damn.... The US, and Islam
> too, wants to dismiss any other political inter- pretation, for Islam
> it is faith, for the US it is freedom but bang me to the wall, it is
> equal religious at its bias!
>
> And moreover Joe, God Bless America is one of the US its
> religious tokens. The US have made God subordinate to the
> American constitution_ America's belief in its own destiny
> is written within its own constitution, there is no seperation
> of religion and politics like in any other lay- nation in Europe, you
> simply have given god a legal place in your mids. Read the Koran and
> you will find that for Gods sake, America is Mohammed own little
> paradise, everything what Islam stands for can be found in America....
> Ironic isn 't it that Americans submit themselves to their
> constitution and in the same token you fight a religion that has the
> same principle underneath ! The country itself was based by refugees
> who were prosecuted and repressed by the ignorants of Europe.
>
> The real difference and thus why, IMO Europe is so contrary
> is that Americans submit themselves to the constitution which
> is in my view totally religious biased, where in Europe the re-
> ligious (f)actors were slowly removed and replaced by a more
> open memeset.
> The US still think that history is there to be made, and that is a
> very dangerous evolution_ but that is also the only way along which
> the US can develop if its hold on to its constitution.... If America
> continues it will not only loose itself but also Europe will opposite
> in the end. Don 't loose the only friend you have....
>
> That is my opinion,
>
> Kenneth
> ( with a little help of Afshin Ellian,
> a Irani poët and philosopher )
>
I have made it abundantly clear that the extant argument is not between
Islam and the West per se, but instead beweeen open society in
general and a coercively terrorist Radical Muslim subset which insists
upon imposing, by force, a theocratic totalitarianism upon a global
shari'a-ruled Ummah. If you see that choice as arbitrary, then you are
either uncomprehending or are no friend of the further evolution of
human society in the direction of greater personal and intellectual
freedom.
>
>
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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