Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA07298 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 25 May 2000 19:13:11 +0100 Message-ID: <392D2658.D40CB351@mediaone.net> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:10:49 +0100 From: chuck <cpalson@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Shaving References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745876@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Vincent Campbell wrote:
> In a way what we're talking about here is semiotics- the denotative function
> of beards- what do they stand for.
>
> Chuck's example of increasing head size to improve status (this works for
> hats too presumably), or covering facial expression to hide emotion, seems
> reasonable.
>
> Your example offers an equally interesting and no less reasonable
> explanation, in that bearded people give an attacker an advantage, so it can
> be worn now as a mark of pacificism.
>
> I believe in Japan beards aren't highly thought of, in terms of social
> status (one of my students told me about a controversial news presenter who
> came back off a long break with a beard, and their was much public debate
> about it).
>
> It's also seen in some societies as a mark of wisdom (hence lots of
> academics have them).
I'd go further into this. Someone just spouting wisdom might not be wisdom at
all; sometimes it's hard to figure out who has good ideas. So beards underscore
the power of the wisdom maker?
>
>
> In the recent contest for the first ever elected London mayor, the
> government's candidate (who lost by a huge amount incidentally) had a beard,
> and it emerged early in the campaign that the government's spin doctors had
> tried to persuade the candidate to shave his beard off, because it wasn't
> seen as a good 'look' for a politician.
>
That makes sense to me - his power should be such that it does not have to be
underscored in that way.
>
> But, and here's my question, finally, what about those of us who can't grow
> beards? I can get long stubble but never a full beard. Does this mean I'm
> semiotically trapped into being low status and/or agressive in Western
> societies, but acceptable in Japan?
>
No - what happens with people who have physical deficits is they have to figure
out other ways to be heard. Short people always make big noises!
>
> Another interesting aspect of marginalia in human behaviour which seems to
> offer massive variety in potential meaning- so why do some meanings persist
> and not others?
>
> Vincent
>
> > ----------
> > From: Wade T.Smith
> > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 6:17 am
> > To: Memetics Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: Shaving
> >
> > >I'm
> > >pretty sure there is a history of beards - it may be mixed in with
> > clothing.
> >
> > There is really only one reason I wear a beard, and have, since I could,
> > which has been about 30 years now.
> >
> > And it is an old reason.
> >
> > And, as far as I know, it is historically correct.
> >
> > And the reason is this- Alexander was the first to command that his
> > soldiers shave their beards, since having a beard provided an enemy, in
> > the type of close quarter fighting that was common with swords and hand
> > weapons, a purchase, a handle, especially to raise the chin for the
> > purpose of throat cutting. So, a soldier in Alexander's army was
> > close-shaven.
> >
> > And so, to me, the beard has always been the mark of the pacifist.
> >
> > And that is why I wear one.
> >
> > - Wade
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu May 25 2000 - 19:14:05 BST