Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA05060 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 25 May 2000 13:05:43 +0100 From: "havelock" <havelock@tig.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Shaving Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:04:20 +1000 Message-ID: <LNBBJFJFCJFOIJDOGJMAMEHPEPAA.havelock@tig.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745876@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Alexander adapted that from the Spartans - a meme perhaps. The spartans
shaved the front of their heads and let their hair grow long at the back so
that in battle their fringe could not be grasped when attacked. If they
fled from battle it would be easy to grab them from behind. By natural
selection only the brave would survive a battle...very Darwinian.
The Spartans had a very militant (ie death) orientated society. Herodotus
records that before battle they took great care to comb their hair. Combing
ones hair is a symbol of rebirth. Hair shares symbolic characteristics with
other regenerative symbols such as snakes (shedding skin, vegetation
(regrowth), etc. all associated with the otherworld. In prepartion for
death they combed their hair. So for these peoples the combing of hair had
a great socio-semiotic value.
Beards don't have to be sign of pacifism. In medieval europe the beards of
vassals were grasped by lords as a sign of domination...not pacifism. These
same vassals after oath taking went into battle. A similar thing to shaking
hands - if you use your right hand you can't conceal a weapon.
The only really modern disadvantage of not being able to grow a beard is
that you will never be mistaken for George Michael and if you go bald the
counterweight look is out...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Vincent Campbell
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:02 PM
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Shaving
>
>
> In a way what we're talking about here is semiotics- the
> denotative function
> of beards- what do they stand for.
>
> Chuck's example of increasing head size to improve status (this works for
> hats too presumably), or covering facial expression to hide emotion, seems
> reasonable.
>
> Your example offers an equally interesting and no less reasonable
> explanation, in that bearded people give an attacker an
> advantage, so it can
> be worn now as a mark of pacificism.
>
> I believe in Japan beards aren't highly thought of, in terms of social
> status (one of my students told me about a controversial news
> presenter who
> came back off a long break with a beard, and their was much public debate
> about it).
>
> It's also seen in some societies as a mark of wisdom (hence lots of
> academics have them).
>
> In the recent contest for the first ever elected London mayor, the
> government's candidate (who lost by a huge amount incidentally)
> had a beard,
> and it emerged early in the campaign that the government's spin
> doctors had
> tried to persuade the candidate to shave his beard off, because it wasn't
> seen as a good 'look' for a politician.
>
> But, and here's my question, finally, what about those of us who
> can't grow
> beards? I can get long stubble but never a full beard. Does
> this mean I'm
> semiotically trapped into being low status and/or agressive in Western
> societies, but acceptable in Japan?
>
> Another interesting aspect of marginalia in human behaviour which seems to
> offer massive variety in potential meaning- so why do some
> meanings persist
> and not others?
>
> Vincent
>
> > ----------
> > From: Wade T.Smith
> > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 6:17 am
> > To: Memetics Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: Shaving
> >
> > >I'm
> > >pretty sure there is a history of beards - it may be mixed in with
> > clothing.
> >
> > There is really only one reason I wear a beard, and have, since
> I could,
> > which has been about 30 years now.
> >
> > And it is an old reason.
> >
> > And, as far as I know, it is historically correct.
> >
> > And the reason is this- Alexander was the first to command that his
> > soldiers shave their beards, since having a beard provided an enemy, in
> > the type of close quarter fighting that was common with swords and hand
> > weapons, a purchase, a handle, especially to raise the chin for the
> > purpose of throat cutting. So, a soldier in Alexander's army was
> > close-shaven.
> >
> > And so, to me, the beard has always been the mark of the pacifist.
> >
> > And that is why I wear one.
> >
> > - Wade
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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