Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA02827 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 23 May 2000 04:01:30 +0100 Message-ID: <3929ADAE.C4B4F758@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:59:10 +0100 From: chuck <cpalson@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Advertising studies References: <LNBBJFJFCJFOIJDOGJMAMEDDEPAA.havelock@tig.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I'll grant you there are advantages - especially the opportunities of niche
marketing that weren't there not too long ago.
havelock wrote:
> that is the way of the world...is there an alternative? Is it really a
> problem? Look at the Oprah book phenominon she can take a nobody and turn
> them into a nobody with a number one book within a week ( these days with
> advance notice before she gets to air). No one gets hurt...
>
> I actually don't find this sort of marketing a threat. It's great to be
> able to see data like: if you read this others also bought this. Beats the
> hell out of going to the local bookshop where they have 'recommended by
> staff' stickers on 'a guide on how to make your 1st million' ( then why are
> they working there if it's such a great book?). This usually happens when
> they get too much stock. It's the book world version of Garlic or Spiced
> chicken...shops do that when the chicken is at (or over) their shelf life.
>
> Publishers are after money but they are also marketing on their reputations.
> Ultimately this means that they will sell less if they flog books purely on
> volume alone ... Stephen King and other Brand Authors excluded.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > Of chuck
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 7:45 AM
> > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Subject: Re: Advertising studies
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > havelock wrote:
> >
> > > a good marketer has ways of getting you to hand over information through
> > > misdirection eg. enter this competition...just a few questions first etc
> > >
> > > Most of the time cookies will be used accumulatively...have a look at
> > > Amazon and the way it 'trys' to suggest books for you based on previous
> > > purchases and how you rate books you have read
> >
> > The bots have their achilles heel. Now that Amazon accepts money from the
> > publishers for these recommendations, their credibility is eroding.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > Of chuck
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 7:26 AM
> > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > Subject: Re: Advertising studies
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well - if this is true, then this certainly doesn't give any
> > > > marketer much of a
> > > > leg up in researching the effect of the media. It's still an
> > uphill battle
> > > > getting any really decent data.
> > > >
> > > > havelock wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > it's a bit open ended to say 'anything'...it just encourages
> > > > panic ( unless
> > > > > that is your intention). 'Anything' is possible ...but their are
> > > > > limitations. The main one is that you ( as the user ) have to
> > > > provide the
> > > > > information in some way. The main things they store is critical
> > > > data like:
> > > > >
> > > > > my name: only you can give your real one [ though if you are on
> > > > a PC go into
> > > > > the control panel --> network --> identification tab as this can be
> > > > > accessed ]
> > > > >
> > > > > how many times I have been to this site: who cares
> > > > >
> > > > > yadda yadda yadda
> > > > >
> > > > > more invasive techniques are used when you shop using
> > credit cards and
> > > > > rewards schemes for grocery shopping than are out there on the
> > > > net at the
> > > > > moment.
> > > > >
> > > > > Generally there are really exciting things like that those
> > > > detailed below
> > > > > can be collected automatically everytime you go through a
> > CGI script-
> > > > > without your permission. The usual ones are:
> > > > >
> > > > > SERVER_SOFTWARE = Zeus/3.3
> > > > > DOCUMENT_ROOT = /www/db
> > > > > GATEWAY_INTERFACE = CGI/1.1
> > > > > REMOTE_ADDR =
> > > > > SERVER_PROTOCOL = HTTP/1.1
> > > > > REMOTE_HOST =
> > > > > REQUEST_METHOD = POST
> > > > > HTTP_REFERER =
> > > > > REMOTE_USER =
> > > > > HTTP_USER_AGENT = Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98)
> > > > > QUERY_STRING =
> > > > > PATH =
> > > > >
> > > > ..:/root:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/work/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:
> > > > /home/local
> > > > >
> > > > :/home/local/bin:/var/qmail/bin:/usr/local:/usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs
> > > > /bin:/usr/
> > > > > bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/etc:/usr/ucb:/etc
> > > > > VSERVER_NAME =
> > > > > HTTP_CONNECTION = Keep-Alive
> > > > > HTTP_ACCEPT = application/vnd.ms-excel, application/msword,
> > > > > application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, image/gif, image/x-xbitmap,
> > image/jpeg,
> > > > > image/pjpeg, application/x-comet, */*
> > > > > HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE = en-us
> > > > > AUTH_TYPE = Basic
> > > > > HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING = gzip, deflate
> > > > > SCRIPT_FILENAME = /www/db/cgi-bin/formmail.cgi
> > > > > SCRIPT_NAME = /cgi-bin/formmail.cgi
> > > > > SERVER_NAME =
> > > > > REQUEST_URI = /cgi-bin/formmail.cgi
> > > > > SERVER_PORT = 80
> > > > > CONTENT_LENGTH = 271
> > > > > CONTENT_TYPE = application/x-www-form-urlencoded
> > > > > HTTP_HOST =
> > > > > SERVER_ADMIN =
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > > > Of Richard Brodie
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:56 AM
> > > > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Advertising studies
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A cookie is a text file. Basically anything can be stored in it.
> > > > > > I think you
> > > > > > have a tendency to say something is impossible if you don't
> > > > understand it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com
> > > > > > http://www.memecentral.com/rbrodie.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > > > Of chuck
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:22 AM
> > > > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Advertising studies
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard Brodie wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Chuck wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <<At least for now, the complaint is that it's hard
> > > > > > > to know the nature of the universe of customers, and
> > > > internet users are
> > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > a small slice of the population. Also, I think there is a
> > > > > > realization that
> > > > > > > much of commerce will not be internet. And, -here's something I
> > > > > > am unclear
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > - exactly what kind of information do you get from cookies.
> > > > What's your
> > > > > > take
> > > > > > > on this?>>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > With current technology an advertiser can tell exactly what
> > > > > > impression led
> > > > > > > to the click-through. You can store basically anything in a
> > > > > > cookie. It's a
> > > > > > > way for a merchant to create a profile on a customer without
> > > > > > asking her to
> > > > > > > fill in a form, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seriously - just WHAT can be stored. It's not "basically
> > > > anything" because
> > > > > > that's impossible. Is it that pattern of her choices through the
> > > > > > site? And
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > are the kinds things about the consumer you can infer from them?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com
> > > > > > > http://www.memecentral.com/rbrodie.htm
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ===============================================================
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> > > > > >
> > > > > > ===============================================================
> > > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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> > Transmission
> > > > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ===============================================================
> > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> > Transmission
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> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
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> > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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> > >
> > > ===============================================================
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> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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