Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA19550 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 24 May 2000 02:38:38 +0100 From: "havelock" <havelock@tig.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Advertising studies Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:37:31 +1000 Message-ID: <LNBBJFJFCJFOIJDOGJMAEEFBEPAA.havelock@tig.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3929ADAE.C4B4F758@mediaone.net> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
if you have time have a look at
http://www.netscape.com/newsref/std/cookie_spec.html it might answer some of
your questions
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of chuck
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 7:59 AM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Advertising studies
>
>
> I'll grant you there are advantages - especially the
> opportunities of niche
> marketing that weren't there not too long ago.
>
> havelock wrote:
>
> > that is the way of the world...is there an alternative? Is it really a
> > problem? Look at the Oprah book phenominon she can take a
> nobody and turn
> > them into a nobody with a number one book within a week ( these
> days with
> > advance notice before she gets to air). No one gets hurt...
> >
> > I actually don't find this sort of marketing a threat. It's great to be
> > able to see data like: if you read this others also bought
> this. Beats the
> > hell out of going to the local bookshop where they have 'recommended by
> > staff' stickers on 'a guide on how to make your 1st million'
> then why are
> > they working there if it's such a great book?). This usually
> happens when
> > they get too much stock. It's the book world version of Garlic
> or Spiced
> > chicken...shops do that when the chicken is at (or over) their
> shelf life.
> >
> > Publishers are after money but they are also marketing on their
> reputations.
> > Ultimately this means that they will sell less if they flog
> books purely on
> > volume alone ... Stephen King and other Brand Authors excluded.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > Of chuck
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 7:45 AM
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Subject: Re: Advertising studies
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > havelock wrote:
> > >
> > > > a good marketer has ways of getting you to hand over
> information through
> > > > misdirection eg. enter this competition...just a few
> questions first etc
> > > >
> > > > Most of the time cookies will be used
> accumulatively...have a look at
> > > > Amazon and the way it 'trys' to suggest books for you based
> on previous
> > > > purchases and how you rate books you have read
> > >
> > > The bots have their achilles heel. Now that Amazon accepts
> money from the
> > > publishers for these recommendations, their credibility is eroding.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > > Of chuck
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 7:26 AM
> > > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > Subject: Re: Advertising studies
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well - if this is true, then this certainly doesn't give any
> > > > > marketer much of a
> > > > > leg up in researching the effect of the media. It's still an
> > > uphill battle
> > > > > getting any really decent data.
> > > > >
> > > > > havelock wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > it's a bit open ended to say 'anything'...it just encourages
> > > > > panic ( unless
> > > > > > that is your intention). 'Anything' is possible
> ...but their are
> > > > > > limitations. The main one is that you ( as the user ) have to
> > > > > provide the
> > > > > > information in some way. The main things they store is critical
> > > > > data like:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > my name: only you can give your real one [ though if you are on
> > > > > a PC go into
> > > > > > the control panel --> network --> identification tab as
> this can be
> > > > > > accessed ]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > how many times I have been to this site: who cares
> > > > > >
> > > > > > yadda yadda yadda
> > > > > >
> > > > > > more invasive techniques are used when you shop using
> > > credit cards and
> > > > > > rewards schemes for grocery shopping than are out there on the
> > > > > net at the
> > > > > > moment.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Generally there are really exciting things like that those
> > > > > detailed below
> > > > > > can be collected automatically everytime you go through a
> > > CGI script-
> > > > > > without your permission. The usual ones are:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SERVER_SOFTWARE = Zeus/3.3
> > > > > > DOCUMENT_ROOT = /www/db
> > > > > > GATEWAY_INTERFACE = CGI/1.1
> > > > > > REMOTE_ADDR =
> > > > > > SERVER_PROTOCOL = HTTP/1.1
> > > > > > REMOTE_HOST =
> > > > > > REQUEST_METHOD = POST
> > > > > > HTTP_REFERER =
> > > > > > REMOTE_USER =
> > > > > > HTTP_USER_AGENT = Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01;
> Windows 98)
> > > > > > QUERY_STRING =
> > > > > > PATH =
> > > > > >
> > > > > ..:/root:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/work/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:
> > > > > /home/local
> > > > > >
> > > > > :/home/local/bin:/var/qmail/bin:/usr/local:/usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs
> > > > > /bin:/usr/
> > > > > > bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/etc:/usr/ucb:/etc
> > > > > > VSERVER_NAME =
> > > > > > HTTP_CONNECTION = Keep-Alive
> > > > > > HTTP_ACCEPT = application/vnd.ms-excel, application/msword,
> > > > > > application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, image/gif, image/x-xbitmap,
> > > image/jpeg,
> > > > > > image/pjpeg, application/x-comet, */*
> > > > > > HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE = en-us
> > > > > > AUTH_TYPE = Basic
> > > > > > HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING = gzip, deflate
> > > > > > SCRIPT_FILENAME = /www/db/cgi-bin/formmail.cgi
> > > > > > SCRIPT_NAME = /cgi-bin/formmail.cgi
> > > > > > SERVER_NAME =
> > > > > > REQUEST_URI = /cgi-bin/formmail.cgi
> > > > > > SERVER_PORT = 80
> > > > > > CONTENT_LENGTH = 271
> > > > > > CONTENT_TYPE = application/x-www-form-urlencoded
> > > > > > HTTP_HOST =
> > > > > > SERVER_ADMIN =
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > > > > Of Richard Brodie
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:56 AM
> > > > > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: Advertising studies
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A cookie is a text file. Basically anything can be
> stored in it.
> > > > > > > I think you
> > > > > > > have a tendency to say something is impossible if you don't
> > > > > understand it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com
> > > > > > > http://www.memecentral.com/rbrodie.htm
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > > > > Of chuck
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:22 AM
> > > > > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Advertising studies
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Richard Brodie wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Chuck wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > <<At least for now, the complaint is that it's hard
> > > > > > > > to know the nature of the universe of customers, and
> > > > > internet users are
> > > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > > a small slice of the population. Also, I think there is a
> > > > > > > realization that
> > > > > > > > much of commerce will not be internet. And, -here's
> something I
> > > > > > > am unclear
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > - exactly what kind of information do you get from cookies.
> > > > > What's your
> > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > on this?>>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > With current technology an advertiser can tell exactly what
> > > > > > > impression led
> > > > > > > > to the click-through. You can store basically anything in a
> > > > > > > cookie. It's a
> > > > > > > > way for a merchant to create a profile on a customer without
> > > > > > > asking her to
> > > > > > > > fill in a form, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seriously - just WHAT can be stored. It's not "basically
> > > > > anything" because
> > > > > > > that's impossible. Is it that pattern of her choices
> through the
> > > > > > > site? And
> > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > are the kinds things about the consumer you can infer
> from them?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com
> > > > > > > > http://www.memecentral.com/rbrodie.htm
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> ===============================================================
> > > > > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list
> associated with the
> > > > > > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> > > > > Transmission
> > > > > > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
> > > unsubscribing)
> > > > > > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> ===============================================================
> > > > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> > > Transmission
> > > > > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
> > > unsubscribing)
> > > > > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> ===============================================================
> > > > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> > > Transmission
> > > > > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
> > > unsubscribing)
> > > > > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ===============================================================
> > > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> > > Transmission
> > > > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
> unsubscribing)
> > > > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ===============================================================
> > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> Transmission
> > > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
> unsubscribing)
> > > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
> > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> Transmission
> > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed May 24 2000 - 02:39:10 BST