Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA02794 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 23 May 2000 03:58:26 +0100 From: "havelock" <havelock@tig.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Advertising studies Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:57:20 +1000 Message-ID: <LNBBJFJFCJFOIJDOGJMAMEDDEPAA.havelock@tig.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-reply-to: <3929AA3E.F5AAA542@mediaone.net> Importance: Normal Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
that is the way of the world...is there an alternative? Is it really a
problem? Look at the Oprah book phenominon she can take a nobody and turn
them into a nobody with a number one book within a week ( these days with
advance notice before she gets to air). No one gets hurt...
I actually don't find this sort of marketing a threat. It's great to be
able to see data like: if you read this others also bought this. Beats the
hell out of going to the local bookshop where they have 'recommended by
staff' stickers on 'a guide on how to make your 1st million' ( then why are
they working there if it's such a great book?). This usually happens when
they get too much stock. It's the book world version of Garlic or Spiced
chicken...shops do that when the chicken is at (or over) their shelf life.
Publishers are after money but they are also marketing on their reputations.
Ultimately this means that they will sell less if they flog books purely on
volume alone ... Stephen King and other Brand Authors excluded.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of chuck
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 7:45 AM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Advertising studies
>
>
>
>
> havelock wrote:
>
> > a good marketer has ways of getting you to hand over information through
> > misdirection eg. enter this competition...just a few questions first etc
> >
> > Most of the time cookies will be used accumulatively...have a look at
> > Amazon and the way it 'trys' to suggest books for you based on previous
> > purchases and how you rate books you have read
>
> The bots have their achilles heel. Now that Amazon accepts money from the
> publishers for these recommendations, their credibility is eroding.
>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > Of chuck
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 7:26 AM
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Subject: Re: Advertising studies
> > >
> > >
> > > Well - if this is true, then this certainly doesn't give any
> > > marketer much of a
> > > leg up in researching the effect of the media. It's still an
> uphill battle
> > > getting any really decent data.
> > >
> > > havelock wrote:
> > >
> > > > it's a bit open ended to say 'anything'...it just encourages
> > > panic ( unless
> > > > that is your intention). 'Anything' is possible ...but their are
> > > > limitations. The main one is that you ( as the user ) have to
> > > provide the
> > > > information in some way. The main things they store is critical
> > > data like:
> > > >
> > > > my name: only you can give your real one [ though if you are on
> > > a PC go into
> > > > the control panel --> network --> identification tab as this can be
> > > > accessed ]
> > > >
> > > > how many times I have been to this site: who cares
> > > >
> > > > yadda yadda yadda
> > > >
> > > > more invasive techniques are used when you shop using
> credit cards and
> > > > rewards schemes for grocery shopping than are out there on the
> > > net at the
> > > > moment.
> > > >
> > > > Generally there are really exciting things like that those
> > > detailed below
> > > > can be collected automatically everytime you go through a
> CGI script-
> > > > without your permission. The usual ones are:
> > > >
> > > > SERVER_SOFTWARE = Zeus/3.3
> > > > DOCUMENT_ROOT = /www/db
> > > > GATEWAY_INTERFACE = CGI/1.1
> > > > REMOTE_ADDR =
> > > > SERVER_PROTOCOL = HTTP/1.1
> > > > REMOTE_HOST =
> > > > REQUEST_METHOD = POST
> > > > HTTP_REFERER =
> > > > REMOTE_USER =
> > > > HTTP_USER_AGENT = Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98)
> > > > QUERY_STRING =
> > > > PATH =
> > > >
> > > ..:/root:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/work/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:
> > > /home/local
> > > >
> > > :/home/local/bin:/var/qmail/bin:/usr/local:/usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs
> > > /bin:/usr/
> > > > bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/etc:/usr/ucb:/etc
> > > > VSERVER_NAME =
> > > > HTTP_CONNECTION = Keep-Alive
> > > > HTTP_ACCEPT = application/vnd.ms-excel, application/msword,
> > > > application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, image/gif, image/x-xbitmap,
> image/jpeg,
> > > > image/pjpeg, application/x-comet, */*
> > > > HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE = en-us
> > > > AUTH_TYPE = Basic
> > > > HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING = gzip, deflate
> > > > SCRIPT_FILENAME = /www/db/cgi-bin/formmail.cgi
> > > > SCRIPT_NAME = /cgi-bin/formmail.cgi
> > > > SERVER_NAME =
> > > > REQUEST_URI = /cgi-bin/formmail.cgi
> > > > SERVER_PORT = 80
> > > > CONTENT_LENGTH = 271
> > > > CONTENT_TYPE = application/x-www-form-urlencoded
> > > > HTTP_HOST =
> > > > SERVER_ADMIN =
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > > Of Richard Brodie
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:56 AM
> > > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > Subject: RE: Advertising studies
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A cookie is a text file. Basically anything can be stored in it.
> > > > > I think you
> > > > > have a tendency to say something is impossible if you don't
> > > understand it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com
> > > > > http://www.memecentral.com/rbrodie.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > > Of chuck
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:22 AM
> > > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > Subject: Re: Advertising studies
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Brodie wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Chuck wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <<At least for now, the complaint is that it's hard
> > > > > > to know the nature of the universe of customers, and
> > > internet users are
> > > > > > still
> > > > > > a small slice of the population. Also, I think there is a
> > > > > realization that
> > > > > > much of commerce will not be internet. And, -here's something I
> > > > > am unclear
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > - exactly what kind of information do you get from cookies.
> > > What's your
> > > > > take
> > > > > > on this?>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With current technology an advertiser can tell exactly what
> > > > > impression led
> > > > > > to the click-through. You can store basically anything in a
> > > > > cookie. It's a
> > > > > > way for a merchant to create a profile on a customer without
> > > > > asking her to
> > > > > > fill in a form, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seriously - just WHAT can be stored. It's not "basically
> > > anything" because
> > > > > that's impossible. Is it that pattern of her choices through the
> > > > > site? And
> > > > > what
> > > > > are the kinds things about the consumer you can infer from them?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com
> > > > > > http://www.memecentral.com/rbrodie.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ===============================================================
> > > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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> unsubscribing)
> > > > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ===============================================================
> > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> Transmission
> > > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
> unsubscribing)
> > > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ===============================================================
> > > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> Transmission
> > > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
> unsubscribing)
> > > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
> > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> Transmission
> > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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