Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA20180 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 16 May 2000 16:45:41 +0100 Message-ID: <B6E47FBD3879D31192AD009027AC929C3688EC@NWTH-EXCHANGE> From: Bruce Jones <BruceJ@nwths.com> To: "'Chuck Palson'" <cpalson@mediaone.net>, "'Tyger'" <void@internet-zahav.net.il> Cc: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: A response Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:16:10 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Tyger and Chuck!
You asked a question and I responded from a different e-dress and not sure
it went through. I am sending you each a copy and reposting to the group.
Thank You
Bruce
Chuck:
Thank you for calling me on this one.
I said that as systems get simpler the organisms within the systems get more
selfish to survive. You asked for examples:
What I needed to say was that as systems become more organized the organisms
get more selfish. You then said,"or is it the niches they find?"
It is, to some extent, both. The sabertooth cats became so dependent upon
their food source that they became overly specialized for their niche. When
the food source died off or changed the sabertooth did not change and died
off. However, an example of an organism that became more selfish as their
system became more organized is man. As man organized into first clans than
villages then cities than states and countries they became more selfish
demanding more and more from the organization. This selfishness has led to
technological development and resource exploitation. As the resources were
used up or exploited beyond regrowth the civilizations and persons within
them either disappeared or were absorbed by societies that used different
resources or the same ones differently. A prime example are the
civilizations of pre-historic Mexico and South America. The leading theory
at this time is the Incas used up the forests in the production of the
stucco they covered all their buildings with. As the forests disappeared
their economy and culture failed and they disappeared as a culture. They
became selfish beyond their means to support their culture.
Tyger:
A prime example, at least in America, of a meme that has mutated in response
to the cultural (societal) polarity is a statement meaning to concoct a
solution that makes something work but may fall apart or is of low quality;
"Niger rigging". This is a saying that was begun in the USA during or after
the Civil War to indicate a fix of inferior quality. In the North it was
also known as, "Southern Engineering". Both terms are derogatory in nature
and are meant as an insult. As memes they survived in a negative cultural
context. Social pressures have sentenced the first of these terms to
extinction but allowed the second to survive. Around 1935 - 1945 another
term, meaning the same thing, came into vogue and that is "Jerry Rigging".
This term is of course a putdown to the German nation which, as everybody
knows, was in the middle of attempting to dominate Europe. Both terms still
exist even though I doubt that one in ten of any persons under the age of 30
can tell you the derivation of "Jerry Rigged" and why it is a negative term
based on that definition. Most will probably say it is a replacement for the
original saying which is correct but not know about the rest of it.
A meme that shows a polarity switch is the word Gay. One hundred years ago
the 1890's were known as the Gay nineties. The society was known as a gay
society. This of course was a description of the party like atmosphere of
the times and was very positive. You might call the 1990's the gay nineties
also but the scenario this brings to the forefront is anything but positive.
" Coming out", sexual bias, Gay rights, AIDS, HIV, have negative polarity
for a majority of the worlds population.
The culture of a meme is of course - society. If a meme enters a societies
lexicon it will either be positive or negative based on the need for one or
the other. As the views and attitudes of the originating culture change the
meme will be dropped or mutated to reflect a new attitude or view. A meme
brought up earlier in this discussion was "Elvis Lives". There are several
that follow this line. One is "Elvis has left the building." This term
struggles to survive but is heard in one of two ways: 1) That person's ego
has left the building - or - 2) My ego has left the building. Others have
been inserted into the languages of various countries. These memes are based
on cultural and societal norms and traditions .... I do not even pretend to
know what they are ..... does anybody have any regional or local memes that
would fit the definitions stated here?
Bruce
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