Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA20161 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 16 May 2000 16:45:27 +0100 Message-ID: <B6E47FBD3879D31192AD009027AC929C3688EF@NWTH-EXCHANGE> From: Bruce Jones <BruceJ@nwths.com> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Useless memes Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:13:56 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vincent Campbell [SMTP:v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk]
> Subject: RE: Useless memes
>
> I'd agree that wars involve, in their instigation the propagation of memes
> (e.g. that wars are just, and our soldiers are on the side of right etc.).
> Vietnam has remained a problem within the wider American memeplex ('the
> American way') because both internal dissent and battlefield defeat
> fundamentally undermined part of the American memeplex's truth-trick
> (moral
> and material superiority to other nations).
>
[BJ] The aspects of defeat in Vietnam might be called an artificial
meme. We were not allowed to win because of media and governmental
intervention.
We have discussed the difference between propaganda and public
relations. With Vietnam there was more media PR than government propaganda.
No war has ever been fought without the support of both. Other
nations have hyped, bragged, propagandized their militaristic glories and
defeats through the use of the cinema. It just seems America does it with
a little more glitzy than others.
[BJ] National pride, State pride, community pride, group pride, and
individual pride all have to have positive meme references and one
unfortunate method for establishing this is through the glorification of
brutal and inhuman acts such as war... especially if they win.
[BJ] The only other item that has caused such a feeling of pride
and accomplishment is the space race.
Bruce Jones
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