Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA22269 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 10 May 2000 17:44:16 +0100 Message-ID: <39194C3C.AE88ADC1@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:47:08 +0100 From: Chuck Palson <cpalson@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31CEB175@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Vincent Campbell wrote:
> I think you need to think about this for a moment. If there was real value
> attached to the belief or activity you wouldn't need propaganda to try and
> persuade people to adopt it.
>
Not necessarily. People do not necessarily immediately understand what is to
their advantage because they are to busy with the kind of life they have. But
remember that I said there are mistakes - which means that people can be conned.
It's part of social life that people don't always get the deal they think they
have bargained for.
>
> > ----------
> > From: Chuck Palson
> > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:27 am
> > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> >
> >
> >
> > Vincent Campbell wrote:
> >
> > > Absolutely. The point of propaganda is to get someone to believe
> > something
> > > or act in some way that wouldn't otherwise believe or do. How is that
> > > utility for the intended victim? (Manchurian Candidate anyone?).
> >
> > As I said, there has to be some real value offered along with the package.
> > By
> > the way, I'm not saying there aren't mistakes. Living in society demands
> > the
> > development of good cheating detecters, and there is a kind of arms race
> > that
> > develops around abilities to detect cheaters. The net effect is the
> > constant
> > development of detectors, otherwise. If that didn't happen over time,
> > cooperation would become impossible. That is the argument of Pinker and
> > others,
> > and it makes sense to me.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: Robin Faichney
> > > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:50 am
> > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> > > >
> > > > Chuck wrote:
> > > > >Robin Faichney wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Is "propagandistic value" the same as, or different from,
> > "usefulness"?
> > > > >>
> > > > >The best person to ask that is your local politician. Far be it for
> > me to
> > > > be so
> > > > >pretentious as to know the answer.
> > > >
> > > > Propaganda is obviously of use to the propagandist, but surely your
> > > > model says that a meme won't be picked up unless it is of use to the
> > > > recipient -- in which case, what is propaganda?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Robin Faichney
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
> > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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