Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA21806 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 10 May 2000 16:43:13 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31CEB175@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:41:23 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I think you need to think about this for a moment. If there was real value
attached to the belief or activity you wouldn't need propaganda to try and
persuade people to adopt it.
> ----------
> From: Chuck Palson
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:27 am
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
>
>
>
> Vincent Campbell wrote:
>
> > Absolutely. The point of propaganda is to get someone to believe
> something
> > or act in some way that wouldn't otherwise believe or do. How is that
> > utility for the intended victim? (Manchurian Candidate anyone?).
>
> As I said, there has to be some real value offered along with the package.
> By
> the way, I'm not saying there aren't mistakes. Living in society demands
> the
> development of good cheating detecters, and there is a kind of arms race
> that
> develops around abilities to detect cheaters. The net effect is the
> constant
> development of detectors, otherwise. If that didn't happen over time,
> cooperation would become impossible. That is the argument of Pinker and
> others,
> and it makes sense to me.
>
> >
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Robin Faichney
> > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:50 am
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> > >
> > > Chuck wrote:
> > > >Robin Faichney wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Is "propagandistic value" the same as, or different from,
> "usefulness"?
> > > >>
> > > >The best person to ask that is your local politician. Far be it for
> me to
> > > be so
> > > >pretentious as to know the answer.
> > >
> > > Propaganda is obviously of use to the propagandist, but surely your
> > > model says that a meme won't be picked up unless it is of use to the
> > > recipient -- in which case, what is propaganda?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robin Faichney
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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