Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA09617 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 4 Mar 2000 13:06:41 GMT X-Sender: rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: Raymond Recchia <rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com> Subject: Re: Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 08:04:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1259947418-771356@smtp.clarityconnect.com> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
At 12:34 PM 03/03/00 -0500, Mark wrote:
>I was trying to better understand what you used to distinguish 'socially
>derived behaviors' and 'memes.' People use meme in a lot of different
>ways. I see most falling into one of two general usages.
>
>Some people use the genotype-phenotype relationship to define meme. In
>this case, the meme is some neural activity or circuit configuration and
>thus analogous to the genotype. Behavior is the phenotype (memotype).
>Thus, one can say that wearing a suit and tie (socially transmitted
>behavior) is memotype to the neural configuration is meme (genotype).
>
>Blackmore's Meme Machine discounts the genotype-phenotype logic explicitly.
> She suggests the behavior and the meme are indistinguishable. The suit
>and tie are both behavior and meme.
>
>In earlier posts these two competing definitions were labeled 'G-memes' and
>'L-memes'. The 'G-meme' got its name from Derek Gatherer and an article he
>published in the Journal of Memetics. The 'L-meme' definition got its name
>from Aaron Lynch and his JoM article.
>
>I advocate the L-meme definition.
>
>I was wondering which model/definition you were using. Here is what you said:
>
>>>Just to toss in my two cents on this subject I think we do have to be
>>>careful to distinguish between socially derived behaviors and memes.
>
>Based on your elaborating comments, it seems you are using the G-meme
>model, equating meme and behavior. The difference between 'meme' (G-meme)
>and new individual behavior is the treatment the social group makes of
>their reaction to the new behavior. You are distinguishing between
>continuously transmitted behaviors (a social group's memorization of
>previous innovations) and individual innovations themselves. As best I can
>interprete these comments, behaviors become memes when they are replicated
>over time by members of the group. In other words, a behavior is only a
>meme if a social group imitates the behavior.
>
Except for the insistence on a G-meme model there this is pretty close.
Also I would modify the last sentence and substitute 'individual' for
'social group'
I'm pretty much an L-meme person but when discussing memes as they are
passed among non-humans it is easier to speak in terms of their behavioral
manifestations. G-memes do not much in the way of explaining power when it
comes to higher level abstract memes like 'the theory of relavity' or 'a
preponderance of the evidence'. I dot see how these could be described
purely in behavioral terms.
Raymond Recchia
Raymond O. Recchia
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sat Mar 04 2000 - 13:06:50 GMT