Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id AAA08611 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 4 Mar 2000 00:35:59 GMT Message-ID: <B0000484600@htcompmail.htcomp.net> X-Sender: mmills@pop3.htcomp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 19:34:27 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: "Mark M. Mills" <mmills@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya In-Reply-To: <200003032327.SAA21488@mail1.lig.bellsouth.net> References: <B0000481663@htcompmail.htcomp.net> <200003031810.NAA20229@mail2.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Joe,
>I see memes as existing in either of two forms; 1) exclusively
>within a consciousness, where intentional or
>inadvertant/accidental modification/mutation can take place in
>reaction to either (or both) already present information
>(memory/knowledge) and/or subsequently encountered information
>(perception), and 2) both within and between consciousnesses, in
>action (including speech), where selection can be applied to the
>transmission of memes by means of their acceptance or rejection
>by prospected receivers (resulting in evolution), and where
>modification/mutation can also take place due to the vagaries of
>communication (such as misunderstanding or incomplete
>communication and the subsequent 'filling in of the gaps" by the
>receiver).
To understand this, I've outlined the above long sentence (no words changed):
I see memes as existing in either of two forms;
1) exclusively within a consciousness, where intentional or
inadvertant/accidental modification/mutation can take place in reaction to:
a) either (or both) already present information (memory/knowledge)
b) subsequently encountered information (perception),
2) both within and between consciousnesses, in action (including speech),
a) where selection can be applied to the transmission of memes by
means of their acceptance or rejection by prospected receivers (resulting
in evolution),
b) where modification/mutation can also take place due to the
vagaries of communication (such as misunderstanding or incomplete
communication and the subsequent 'filling in of the gaps" by the receiver).
As I understand the above, you seem to be dropping the 'meme is a behavior'
definition. A behavior doesn't exist 'within a consciousness.'
This seems more philosophic than empirical. Science has no means of
measuring 'consciousness' directly, much less an entity contained with it
or 'both within and between consciousnesses.'
The Lynch definition can address the issues you raise, though. Since we
identify 'consciousness' via behaviors, 'consciousness' can be identified
as a phenotype to the Lynch meme. Thus, the lynch meme is 'hidden'
somewhere behind the behavioral evidence we empirically observe.
(addressing issues in clause #1 above). With regard to the transmission of
memes (clause #2), one can invoke the transmitter/receptor issues with via
a 4 step process:
a) the meme is used to produce a 'replicating behavior'
b) the behavior is observed by a receiver
c) the receiver's sensations create a new configuration in the target's
neural system.
d) feedback (repeating steps a,b,c) is used to insure the behavioral
products of the transmitted meme satisfy replication requirements. This
step produces isomorphism of response rather than isomorphism of neural
connection. For replication purposes, isomorphism of response (behavior)
is all that is required.
In short, the Lynch definition seems straight forward, empirical and
consistent with other evolutionary disciplines. In contrast, the Gatherer
definition forces one to either break away from the founding concept of
evolutionary theory, the genotype and phenotype, or place great reliance
on abstract and untestable qualities of consciousness.
Mark
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