Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id WAA08417 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:58:11 GMT Message-ID: <B0000481663@htcompmail.htcomp.net> X-Sender: mmills@pop3.htcomp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:56:35 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: "Mark M. Mills" <mmills@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya In-Reply-To: <200003031810.NAA20229@mail2.lig.bellsouth.net> References: <B0000472580@htcompmail.htcomp.net> <1260058958-17555999@smtp.clarityconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Joe,
At 12:13 PM 3/3/00 -0600, you wrote:
>A behavior is a meme only if it admits of variations or evolutions or
>mutations and is not the same species-wide, and if the distinctions
>are essential ones, i.e. ones which change the signification or
>intention of the behavior in question and thus could not be
>circumscribed by instinct, and if it is transmitted/received between
>individuals by communicational (not genetic) means.
This is fairly close to the published Gatherer definition.
http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit/1998/vol2/gatherer_d.html In particular,
they both say that a behavior can be a meme. As I pointed out before, this
is one of two published usages of the term meme. The other is Lynch's.
http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit/1998/vol2/lynch_a.html
It seems to me that your mention of mutation poses problems for the
Gatherer definition. Mutation, as generally understood, is "a sudden,
apparently abnormal change or alteration in a genetically determined
structure." This alludes to the genotype-phenotype concept. For a meme to
'mutate' there must be a genotype. If the behavior is a meme, what is the
genotype?
Blackmore, a subscriber to the Gatherer meme definition, dismisses
genotype-phenotype issues in Meme Machine. By dismissing this, she burns
any bridges she might have had to evolutionary science, but that doesn't
seem to bother her. As could be expected, the Science and Nature magazines
published scathing reviews of the book.
I'm interested in relating mutation to cultural change. I just don't think
the Gatherer definition particularly helpful.
I much prefer the Lynch definition.
MEME (Lynch)
A memory item, or portion of an organism's neurally-stored information,
identified using the abstraction system of the observer, whose
instantiation depended critically on causation by prior instantiation of
the same memory item in one or more other organisms' nervous systems.
Except for the notion that behavior = meme, this fits your criteria pretty
well. Behavior has become phenotypic. Your list of criteria can then be
used to test a behavior for infering the existence of an underlying meme in
the subject's neural system. The genotype-phenotype model is honored and
bridges can be built to existing evolutionary theory.
I'll be interested to hear the problems you find with the Lynch definition.
Mark
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