Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA25475 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 23 Feb 2000 18:03:57 GMT From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk> Organization: Reborn Technology To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: What are memes made of? Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:03:53 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <200002222117.QAA11022@mail1.lig.bellsouth.net> Message-Id: <00022317095000.00570@faichney> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Tue, 22 Feb 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
>> >
>> >To embellish this point slightly... in my mind the question is, does the
>> >evolution of birdsong result in the formation of culture, which takes on a
>> >life of its own independent of, but on the platform of, its genetic
>> >heritage? That's when it would be memetics.
>>
>> Depends what you mean by "culture", of course. Some people think it only means
>> stuff like opera. But the only strict and systematic definition I know,
>> whereby information is passed between generations not only by genetics but
>> also via learned behavioural patterns, clearly includes the relevant types of
>> birdsong. The information that is learned, is the culture.
>>
>And what is the character of information learned, and the nature of
>the culture created, if birdsong variations are bereft of differentiable
>intention and meaning?
Don't know what you mean by "the character of information learned", or what
sort of answer might fit "the nature of the culture created", but the
information is the relevant (learned) portion of the birdsong, and that is also
the culture. (It might seem that the culture should be the *whole* of the
birdsong, which makes a sort of intuitive sense, but it unfortunately does not
fit the present definition of culture -- perhaps that needs widening -- even
if some people think it already far too wide!)
-- Robin Faichney===============================This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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