Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id AAA18935 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:44:58 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: marlowe.umd.edu: debivort owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:43:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Lawrence H. de Bivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu> X-Sender: debivort@marlowe.umd.edu To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: meaning in memetics In-Reply-To: <00022008365402.00482@faichney> Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0002201935210.20644-100000@marlowe.umd.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>>>Did you really mean to say that our minds play a role in guiding the blind
>>>forces of evolution?
LdB:
>>Well, of course our minds play a role in guiding our evolution. See our
>>development of tools and linguistics.
Robin Faichney:
>Sorry, but it seems to me that the *whole* point of memetics is to
analyse such
>developments from the point of view of the meme, just as Dawkins' showed in the
>The Selfish Gene how biological evolution is best understood by asking what
>benefits the gene.
LdB:
Disagree. The point of memetics is to study memetics, whether that
is from the POV of a meme or otherwise. Dawkins made a contribution to
biological evolution, and a seminal one to memetics, but we need not
accept his view as controlling if we feel there are additionally
productive ways of investigating things.
And, as I have suggested before, I do not think it is useful to insists
that memes must be modelled on genes, but I won't go into that again.
SNIP
LdB:
>>And we are learning how to do this
>>consciously, that is, deliberately doing things to affect our evolutionary
>>development.
Robin Faichney:
>There's an enormous difference between learning how such stuff works in
>principle, and putting it into practice. In particular, are you suggesting
>that people will ignore their own individual interests in favour of
>evolutionary concerns?
LdB:
"Individual interests" is not a term that offers sufficient distinctions
to tackle the question. Can you define how you use the term a bit further?
Lawrence de Bivort
The Memetics Group
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