Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA25861 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:37:37 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020215182919.02c8dda0@pop.cogeco.ca> X-Sender: hkhenson@pop.cogeco.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:34:28 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: Keith Henson <hkhenson@cogeco.ca> Subject: RE: draft abstract Sex, Drugs and Cults In-Reply-To: <JJEIIFOCALCJKOFDFAHBGENKEFAA.richard@brodietech.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020215133938.02c98c30@pop.cogeco.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
At 11:23 AM 15/02/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Keith wrote:
>
><<A whole class of memes
>(cults, religions) have no obvious replication drivers.>>
>
>I'm glad to see you're nearing completion of your paper. Some feedback: I
>don't think a cult or a religion is usefully considered just one meme
>(Dawkins and Brodie called them mind viruses), but even waving hands over
>the definitional morass, isn't evangelism an "obvious replication driver"?
For the meme yes.  But here is the context this was extracted from:
         In the aggregate, memes constitute human culture.  Most of them 
are of the rock-chipping/shoemaking/vehicle-avoiding kind--they provide 
clear benefits to those who host them, i.e., learn behaviors or 
information.  They are passed from generation to generation because of the 
benefits (ultimately to the genes of their hosts) they provide.
         But a whole class of memes have no obvious replication 
drivers.  Memes of this class, which includes religions, cults and social 
movements such as nazism and communism, have induced humans to some of the 
most spectacular events in history, including mass suicides, wars, 
migrations, crusades, and other forms of large-scale social unrest.  These 
memes often induce humans to activities that seriously damage or destroy 
their potential for reproductive success.  The classic example is the 
nearly extinct Shakers--whose meme set completely forbids sex.  A more 
recent example is the gonad-clipping Heaven's Gate cult.  While inducing 
such behavior makes sense from the meme's viewpoint (diverting host time 
and energy toward propagating the meme and away from bearing and caring for 
children) it makes no sense when considered from the gene's viewpoint for a 
susceptibility to this class of sometimes-fatal memes to have evolved.
Why are (at least some) humans highly susceptible?
><<People may become irresponsible on
>either cults or drugs resulting in severe damage to reproductive
>potential.>>
>
>Education has also been shown to be correlated with low reproductive rates.
That's true, and the correlation may be causal, but it could also be that 
education is causally linked to wealth.  Of course, the really interesting 
thing is why people of high wealth don't spend it all on having a dozen 
children.  At one time they did, and in some cultures, particularly Islamic 
they still do.
Keith
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