Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA12729 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 4 Feb 2002 02:00:02 GMT Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020203204951.00a2d170@mail.clarityconnect.com> X-Sender: rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:52:32 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: Ray Recchia <rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com> Subject: Re: Words and memes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020203170922.02c68a00@pop.cogeco.ca> References: <004401c1ace3$0c6cdfe0$5cc1b3d1@teddace> <20020202025534.81703.qmail@web12302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hey Keith
At 05:23 PM 2/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>At 10:46 AM 03/02/02 -0800, "Dace" <edace@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>snip
>
>>The key issue is whether the unit of culture is self-replicated or
>>intentionally replicated by a conscious agent. Memes are active. Ideas are
>>passive.
>
>Again I think this is a catchy way to express the essence of the "meme
>about memes"
>
>Idea is very close in "meaning space" to meme, but meme has the
>replication aspect attached.
>
>So you could have Watt's *idea* about how to improve steam engines
>"separate condenser" which you would use to describe Watt's study and
>coming up with the idea. You would use the *meme* of "separate condenser"
>when you wanted to talk about Watt's idea spreading like wildfire among
>the steam engineers of the day.
>
>I have often written that an idea fails to be a meme (at best it is a
>potential meme) when someone has an idea and never communicates the
>idea. By this line of thinking an idea written on paper is still not a
>meme until someone (other than the writer) read it. Shades of the spooky
>observer effects in quantum mechanics!
>
>Of course, none of this negates the essence of any particular meme being
>pure information.
>
>Keith Henson
>
This is the distinction I would draw. If it hasn't replicated it isn't a
meme. I am not sure this is the distinction that Ted is drawing though.
Ray Recchia
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