Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA29869 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:11:43 GMT X-Sender: unicorn@pop.greenepa.net Message-Id: <p04320411b878dcdb86d6@[192.168.2.3]> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020126061028.01c04890@mail.iinet.net.au> References: <4.2.0.58.20020124180900.01d49d90@mail.iinet.net.au> <4.2.0.58.20020123181508.01c5bb30@mail.iinet.net.au> <F223bCc9FPsBR2fY2Bs000254a6@hotmail.com> <F223bCc9FPsBR2fY2Bs000254a6@hotmail.com> <4.2.0.58.20020123181508.01c5bb30@mail.iinet.net.au> <4.2.0.58.20020124180900.01d49d90@mail.iinet.net.au> <4.2.0.58.20020126061028.01c04890@mail.iinet.net.au> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 18:05:09 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: "Francesca S. Alcorn" <unicorn@greenepa.net> Subject: Re: Rogue Males by Lionel Tiger Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Stephen said:
>  We've been ear-bashed with the Woman's point of view for the past 
>40 years ;-)
Well it doesn't seem to have sunk in yet.  :}  (ducking for cover)
>>This makes me think of both Malcolm X and Stephen Biko, who said 
>>that in order for African Americans (in Malcolm's case) or Africans 
>>(in Biko's case) to change they must look to themselves.  It is a 
>>necessary first step to recognize your power and to recognize the 
>>ways in which you surrender it before you can reclaim it.  I think 
>>there is something of value in what you say, although I also sense 
>>a little bit of hostility?
>
>Is it wrong to feel disgust or anger at injustices that are being 
>committed in the name of the liberalist agenda?
You say that people must choose.  You must choose what best serves 
your anger and the correction of these injustices: making 
inflammatory remarks that alienate your audience; or offering 
well-reasoned statements laying out your beliefs in a way that people 
can see the value of your point.
>In other words, were other cultures from other times really as 
>ignorant and stupid, living in darkness and ignorance, as our modern 
>"enlightened" would seem to suppose? What I am talking about is 
>rummaging through the beliefs of the past to understand WHY gender 
>roles emerged as they had - and to steer clear of judging these 
>views "right" or "wrong".
I too think that this would be fascinating.  However I don't think 
*you* should write it, you would come up with something so 
inflammatory that no one would take it seriously.  :}
>In answer to your question, women need to do their own 
>soul-searching, and ask themselves why they make the choices they do.
This is what I said in the Stephen Biko/Malcolm X comment.  I was 
actually looking for something a little more concrete from you, like 
your example of not buying a car.  I'm afraid I don't know much about 
the field of semiotics.  Maybe it would help me understand your point 
if I did.  Perhaps you could point me in the direction of a good 
intro.  I already have a substantial list of "must reads" from this 
list, but I promise to have a go at it.
>And if their answer is based in materialism or "security", or if it 
>is based in attention-seeking
But these are all adaptive motivations, in the sense of natural 
selection, however distasteful you might find them.  The offspring of 
women who employ these strategies may do much better than those of 
women who adopt other strategies.  You may say that we choose the 
meme (and there is some argument about that as well), but natural 
selection chooses which meme-hosts will prosper and which will not.
frankie
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