Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA14957 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:00:15 GMT Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:55:52 -0800 Message-Id: <200201220255.g0M2tqU08874@mail15.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [65.80.47.144] From: "Joe Dees" <joedees@addall.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: Why memeoids? Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
> "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu> <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> RE: Why memeoids?Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:29:54 -0500
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
>Hi, Wade. Sorry for the delay -- the recent blizzard of list emails has been
>both delightful and overwhelming. Digging out...
>
>
>> >Re. your smallpox question: I can't imagine such a scenario, and
>> would feel
>> >terrible if anyone were to recommend this.
>>
>> It's mostly your run-of-the-mill genocide-solves-the-problem solution.
>> Nations, and peoples, have seen it, and done it, before. It has never
>> been a solution offered with any seriousness by any free state. But it is
>> a solution we need to look at as possibly coming from outside of freedom.
>>
>> >do believe that there is
>> >much we can do -- even now -- to improve significantly US relations with
>> >other peoples.
>>
>> Let us not ask what others can do with us, but what we can do with
>> others? It still takes two to make a successful relationship, or at least
>> two committed to working on it. There's much needed to do to remove the
>> sources of the fostering of hatreds, on both sides, as well as the climes
>> of such sources.
>
>Yes, it does take two and sometimes more to make a successful relationship.
>I do believe that it is in our interest to take the initiative, along the
>lines that I have been suggesting in other emails, for many reasons. The
>first and foremost on my mind is that our actions are likely to have
>increased the probability that we will be targeted yet again, and I would
>like to see this defused before it happens. Second, as the society with the
>resources and the education, we have the greater means to do so. Third, I
>focus on what we can do because I have more influence here. If I were
>Muslim, I would be focusing on policy makers in Cairo, Riyadh, Jerusalem,
>etc.
>
Our nonresponse got us the 1993 attack on the World trade center, the truckbombing of the US embassies in Kenya and tanzania, the attack on the USS Cole, and the 9/11 atrocity. These fervent fanatics will attack us regardless; they consider it their religious duty to do so. Our only rational response is to make it more difficult for them to do so by increasing target security (such as increased airplane and embassy security, among other things), and by degrading their ability to carry out such attacks by destroying their infrastructure, funding, safe havens and personnel (which we are currently doing in Afghanistan and in many other places around the globe).
>
>
>I agree completely with your thought that "There's much needed to do to
>remove the sources of the fostering of hatreds, on both sides, as well as
>the climes of such sources."
>
>Fortunately, we are not alone in wishing to do so. There are many Americans
>who also want to do this, and many Muslims and Arabs. Everyone has been
>terribly shocked by Sept 11, and perhaps the first requirement for moving in
>this direction is having to get our thinking calmed and coherent.
>
>> Parochialism of all stripes needs to be eradicated. And that, and its
>> handmaiden, tribalism, have been at the beck and call of humanity all
>> along. And they appear far from vestigial.
>
>Can you say a bit more about what you mean by 'tribalism' and its dangers?
>Might it be possible to create a sense of a species-wide tribe? And would
>this be at all helpful or harmful?
>
>> Tall orders, anyway, all this world peace stuff.
>>
>> - Wade
>
>True, but for someone in my field, it is really the only order in town.
>
>Again, apologies for the delay.
>
>Lawrence
>
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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