Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id IAA02284 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:49:39 GMT Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:45:15 -0800 Message-Id: <200201180845.g0I8jFr03032@mail17.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [65.80.160.162] From: "Joe Dees" <joedees@addall.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: the earth revolves around the sun Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
> RE: the earth revolves around the sunDate: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:36:43 -0500
> "Wade T. Smith" <wade_smith@harvard.edu> "Memetics Discussion List" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
>Hi Philip Jonkers -
>
>>Dear Wade & Joe, has it occurred to either one
>>of you that you both may be right?
>
>Oh, I knew there was rightness on both sides. I was trying to take one
>side, and make it more right.
>
>>This discussion reminds of the dispute between
>>Schroedinger & Heisenberg on the representation
>>of quantum-mechanics, a wave-equation vs matrix-
>>calculus.
>
>Me too, actually.
>
>>Behavior can
>>be physically copied, meaning is an abstract notion
>>that can be transmitted if it can be captured by
>>some communicative medium (language in humans).
>
>Since meaning _is_ an abstract notion (a semantic vapor, if you will), it
>was my contention that behavior is the only thing _actually_ expressed,
>regardless of any _attempt_ to force meaning onto the behavior. Some
>things are so packed with meaning, and so unalterable, like the
>multiplication table, and planets revolving around suns, that any
>expression of these concepts is contextually and culturally and
>communicatively intact, and the meaning is easily and completely
>understood. A semantic solid. But very much most else is fraught with
>meaning difficulty, and the meme (of behavior) is the only way to attempt
>to express this meaning. It is an expression audience-dependent,
>transmission mode determinant, and capable of not being understood at any
>point.
>
>Some behaviors fit, fit well, and fit obviously. Presenting as patriotic
>after a tragedy. Comforting the wounded. Eating together. And thus they
>are continued. Cultural continuity. Memetic replication.
>
>Some behaviors do not fit well, or obviously. Quantum theory.
>Scientology. Thus, in order to replicate them, for the benefit of those
>invested in them, strict descriptive and educational parameters need to
>be set up.
>
>The fact we have followers of quantum theory and followers of scientology
>is a tribute to the comfort of culture we can have.
>
We see meaning in the behavior of others because we imbue our own behavior with meaning, and thus, through recognition of similarity, recognize the products of that imbuement on the part of others when we perceive it.
>
>
>- Wade
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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