Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id HAA01895 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 18 Jan 2002 07:30:15 GMT Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:25:48 -0800 Message-Id: <200201180725.g0I7Pm329353@mail17.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [65.80.160.162] From: "Joe Dees" <joedees@addall.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Sensory and sensibility Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
> "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> memetics@mmu.ac.uk Re: Sensory and sensibilityDate: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:10:54 -0500
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
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>>From: "Wade T. Smith" <wade_smith@harvard.edu>
>>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>>To: "Memetics Discussion List" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
>>Subject: Re: Sensory and sensibility
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:47:03 -0500
>>
>>Hi Grant Callaghan -
>>
>> >And before Wade says children that small
>> >don't want, I say the cry you hear is a cry of want.
>>
>>I didn't say the infant didn't want, I said it didn't know it wanted.
>>Although, in the infant's case, it is more 'need' than 'want'.
>>
>>It needs milk. It needs changing. It doesn't want a palm pilot, or a pair
>>of Levis.
>>
>> >But when
>> >a child starts crying to get what it wants because it saw a sibling or
>> >another child get something that way, it would seem to be genuinely
>>memetic
>> >and that starts happening in the first few years of life.
>>
>>Aren't there similar behaviors in chimps? Hell, I've seen kittens with
>>that sort of sibling rivalry.
>>
>>But, I'm serious. When do memes start?
>>
Usually when someone combines parts of two or more old memes.
>
>Never? Just a thought. Somebody's gotta upset the apple cart. Learned this
>from my days taking on the Jungians, inspired by Richard Noll.
>>
>>Some developmental types suggest the 'self' is not intact until somewhere
>>in the fourth year.
>>
The use of the pronoun "I" begins to occur around then, but according to the mirror test, self-awareness begins between the ages of 18 and 24 months. As far as learned vs. innate responses, imagine a big "X" where the intersection happens around the fourth month. At birth, practically all responses are innate, but the ratio progressively decreses, reaching 50/50 with learned responses at about the fourth month, after which learned responses progressively dominate.
>
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>Other types decry the concept of "self" itself.
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>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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