Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA27173 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:31:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.240.222.132] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Do all memes die out or evolve? I think not. Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:27:36 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F217O4SLC7mnRrqnZ6t00020384@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2002 23:27:36.0666 (UTC) FILETIME=[61AF43A0:01C19EE5] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: "Dace" <edace@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: Do all memes die out or evolve? I think not.
>Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:11:06 -0800
>
>Joe Dees:
>
> > I think that some memes reach an optimized limit state that nevertheless
> > retains their functionality and usefulness. For instance, I do not see
> > the multiplication tables either dying out or evolving.
>
>Are you backing off from your assertion that memetics is the evolutionary
>theory of meaning?
>
>Just because memes are liable to arrive at an optimal state doesn't mean
>they aren't still products of evolution. The same thing occurs in the
>natural environment all the time. Organisms get to a certain point where
>they fit their ecosystem perfectly.
>
I didn't realize evolution was about perfection. Are you sure you haven't
conflated evolution with some outdated natural theological view long
replaced by Darwin's evolution via selection?
There are constraints (eg- historically channeling baggage) which impede
reaching perfection, whatever "perfection" may be.
How's your lower back feeling? Ever have appendicitis? It would be perfect
if humans didn't need to get their "wisdom" teeth removed.
>
Then the ecosystem gets washed away, and only those that are able to further
evolve will survive. In the event of a general breakdown of civilization,
multiplication tables would have little use and might disappear. The other
possibility is a genetically engineered leap in intelligence that could
render multiplication tables unnecessary. In that case, if they evolved
into much greater complexity, then they might be useful again and would
persevere.
>
>Ted
>
There's the difference between stabilizing selection which would keep a
feature of a population at a satisfactory (ie- just getting by) state within
a stable ecological context and directional selection which takes the
population toward a different state "better" for a different ecological
context when this context has itself changed, along with the playing field.
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