Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id BAA19625 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:53:46 GMT Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:49:15 -0800 Message-Id: <200201150149.g0F1nFZ18413@mail20.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [216.76.250.15] From: "Joe Dees" <joedees@addall.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
Then perhaps I-mode and C-mode. It is clear, however, that many memetic significances that cannot be bodily demonstrated are linguistically communicable.
>Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:29:20 -0500
> memetics@mmu.ac.uk Ray Recchia <rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com> Re: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory PerceptionReply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
>At 05:07 PM 1/14/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I don't think this C-meme, I-meme distinction is a good one. Person Alpha
>learns how to ride a bicycle by watching someone else do it.
>I-meme. Person Beta learns how to ride a bicycle by having someone
>describe the motions necessary to accomplish the action. C-meme. They both
>know how to ride a bicycle but you would call this two different
>memes. Just to screw things up even further suppose Person Delta, without
>seeing or reading any description of how to ride, just figures out that the
>thing must be for riding and plays with it until she figures out how it
>works. A- or Artefact derived meme right? Humans built the bicycle and you
>can figure what to do with it just by playing with the thing. I think the
>meme should be 'riding a bicycle' and not have different labels depending
>on how one arrived at it. The distinction between the three modes of
>transmission is an important one but I do not think it works for describing
>the memes themselves.
>
>Ray Recchia
>
>
>
>
>>The concept of hammering as a means to modify a natural object is the
>>L-meme (internal ideation); the actual hammering is the g-meme (external
>>behavior). This one is ancient and predates humanity proper; animals are
>>known to employ hammering (otters balance flat rocks on their bellies and
>>smash shellfish against them to batter them open). Let's distinguish the
>>primitive memes that may be communicated by demonstration, imitation and
>>mimicry as I-memes (imitation memes). The construction of a tool
>>(modifying a natural object so that it may be more efficiently employed to
>>modify another object - such as knapping a handaxe) rather than an
>>implement (modifying a natural object for a direct function, such as
>>chimps stripping leaves from branches to use the whips to feed on termites
>>in mounds) is a second-order conception that appears only in human
>>history. Still, it may be considered a (more advanced) I-meme, because it
>>may be transmitted by showing rather than necessitating a !
>>telling or saying. The tool (or even the implement) itself is an
>>artifact, yet it also embodies the meme for its purpose among those who
>>are experientially exposed to its use, as, for them, it comes to stand for
>>its use.
>>What humans have that is different from all but possibly the higher apes
>>and some cetaceans is the C-meme (communication meme); a meme that must be
>>communicated by means of a telling or saying, that is, encoding in an
>>arbitrary (that is, not instinctual, but created and variable - as in
>>multiple language possibilities) commonly understood symbol system or
>>language. Animals only have access to the I-meme; humans (and possibly
>>the others I mentioned on a rudimentary level) may employ both the I-meme
>>and the C-meme. Once secondary systems are developed to freeze the
>>C-memes rather than have them dissolve in the flow of discourse (that is,
>>glyphs and writing which stand for spoken or signed words), our
>>civilization had the ability to exponentially advance.
>>I beieve that the failure to make the fundamental distinction between
>>I-memes and C-memes has been the cause of much strife and confusion in
>>memetic circles.
>> >
>> >- Wade
>> >
>> >
>> >===============================================================
>> >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>> >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>> >For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>> >see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>Looking for a book? Want a deal? No problem AddALL!
>>http://www.addall.com compares book price at 41 online stores.
>>
>>===============================================================
>>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a book? Want a deal? No problem AddALL!
http://www.addall.com compares book price at 41 online stores.
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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