Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id WAA18051 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:58:20 GMT Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:53:56 +1100 Subject: Re: Wilkins on the meme:engram relation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: John Wilkins <wilkins@wehi.edu.au> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <NEBBKOADILIOKGDJLPMAIEMLCIAA.debivort@umd5.umd.edu> Message-Id: <1FABF86E-EF53-11D5-9B16-003065B4D1F0@wehi.edu.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
"Darwinism" implies a lot more than selection and mutation. It includes
drift, allopatry, the Baldwin Effect, common descent, and more recently
horizontal transfer, developmental entrenchment, and so forth. The
problem lies not in the word "Darwinism" but in the rather restricted
notions people have of it. It allows for multiple levels of selection,
for example. Multilevel Selection Theory is all but orthodoxy these
days, for instance.
The problem with "cultural evolution" is that the initial version, and
the one known under that label by the social sciences, particularly
anthropology, is the older positivistic Lamarckian view of evolution -
staged development of civilisations, progressionism, and linear
evolution. But if we can divest ourselves of the scala naturae version
of evolution that preceded Darwin, then we can usefully apply the
mindset of evolution to culture. This includes antiessentialism, hidden
hand (but not necessarily beneficent equilibria) and contingency.
I'm a bit pushed for time, so I can't elaborate on this right now, but
one day...
On Tuesday, December 11, 2001, at 09:58 PM, Lawrence DeBivort wrote:
>
> But John, 'cultural Darwinism' implies that mutation and natural
> selection
> are the only things at work in cultural evolution. We are in a
> position, as
> a species, to go beyond that, and some of us use the term 'meme' to
> refer to
> an element involved in going beyond that. This is why I offer from time
> to
> time this somewhat different definition: a meme is a langauaged
> idea/belief,
> embedded of a linguistic architechture that provides it with
> self-disseminating and self-defending properties. This definition
> allows for
> the possibility that such memes can be consciously designed and
> launched.
>
> Cheers, and good progress on the dissertation.
> Lawrence
>
>
>> The whole neologism of meme is exactly what Aaron says - a distraction.
>> I would rather we referred to this whole thing as cultural Darwinism (I
>> would have said cultural evolution, but that has too many connotations
>> from the turn of the 20th century), which - if one has read one's
>> Ewald - includes epidemiological models.
>>
>> Aaron, I promise at some unspecified future time to read your essay in
>> detail. Possibly after the PhD thesis is in.
>> --
>> John S Wilkins
>> PhD candidate, species concepts
>> History and Philosophy of Science, jointly with Botany
>> The University of Melbourne, Australia
>> http://www.users.bigpond.com/thewilkins/darwiniana.html
>>
>>
>> ===============================================================
>> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
-- John S Wilkins Head, Communication Services The Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research Parkville, Victoria, Australia=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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