Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA23014 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 30 Nov 2001 03:43:19 GMT From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Study shows brain can learn without really trying Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:39:56 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBKOADILIOKGDJLPMAOEHMCIAA.debivort@umd5.umd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3102A6D152@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Importance: Normal Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Vincent, Good question. I like millions of others saw the WTC and Pentagon
events on TV, on sept 11. As it was, I drove by the Pentagon on the very
early morning of the 12, and past New York in the afternoon. Seeing it on TV
was a totally different experience than seeing it in reality. I have thought
about this and think that it is because I have become used to discounting
things I see on TV -- fictional stories, etc -- and that I don't have the
expereince of immeidacy and reality that in-person witnessing has. I was
very surprised and a bit concerned over the difference between the two
experiences, and wonder what we are doing to ourselves with our electronic
brokerage of reality.
Lawrence
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Vincent Campbell
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 7:47 AM
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Study shows brain can learn without really trying
>
>
> <I don't see your problem anyway. Consider a film as an cultural
> artefact. In
> > this film some behavior is shown which can be copied, it's a
> meme, a meme
> > found in an cultural artefact. Then - what difference does it
> make to copy
> > that
> > behavior from a film or a from an actual living person in front
> of me. In
> > the film there is a physical representation of the form. The behavior is
> > encoded in it. The same way the behavior is encoded in the
> movement of the
> > body of
> > a actually living person in front of me. So that's the whole difference.
> > You'd would have to agree with me when say that memes require a physical
> > representation which i totally agree to. You just fail to see
> that when we
> > observe a
> > behavior we actually observe a physical representation to. The
> movement of
> > atoms of a persons body.>
> >
> A good one this. There are fundamental differences in our responses
> to mediated events, as opposed to those we experience directly. Remember
> film is a 2-D representation in which a lot of information is
> missing (e.g.
> touch, taste, smell- unless its smellovision of course :-)), so the
> information is not encoded in the same way as in a person in front of you,
> nor can it be decoded in the same way. Hence when army cadets copy their
> instructors in shooting practice that's legitimate, but someone copying
> 'Natural Born Killers' is seen as aberrant (and usually seen, wrongly, as
> the movie's fault, and not the looney's).
>
> Consider your responses to images of the WTC attack, I assume most
> of us witnessed these live on TV as they happened or immediately
> afterwards.
> Would your response to these events have been the same/different
> if you had
> been there? Similarly our responses to mediated information, inlcuding
> potential for imitation are not the same as information received more
> directly. That's not to say that imitation and learning can't come from
> mediated forms just that these things are different. And it's in the
> difference that the point lies, for me anyway, whilst others
> would focus on
> the similarities.
>
> Vincent
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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