Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id IAA04263 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:42:00 GMT Message-ID: <001c01c16055$675820c0$e89ebed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: "memetics" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Fitness increment hypothesis (non-fit memes) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:40:14 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > Hi Philip,
> > > > You wrote,
> > > >
> > > > > The reward of pedophilia is pleasure, albeit a sick one. Therefore
> > memes
> > > > > spreading pedophilia have a culturally fitness increasing
function.
> I
> > am
> > > > > wondering though, to what extent the phenomenon of pedophilia is
> > > memetic;
> > > > > might there not also be a genetic component present?
> > > >
> > > > << Fist of all, let me remind you that your point of view about the
> > > pleasure
> > > > which pedophiles seek is a sick one, comes from the way you look at
> the
> > > > issue, here.
> > > > In cases like this, ( Hamilton ( Dunblane) / Dutoux ( Belgium)),
both
> > did
> > > > not understand what they did wrong !
> > > > In their twisted mind they saw no reasons not to act as they did.
> > > > Their pleasure was no sick one to them, it satisfied needs.
> > > >
> > > > Most cases of pedophilia are explained out of the bias of power, the
> > > > full grown man abuses a child- issue.
> > > > But, most pedophiles wouldn 't harm any child, they love children.
In
> > > > extreme cases I admit pedophiles become murderes, but that is more
> > > > related to the notion that their love for the child(ren) exceeds the
> > boun-
> > > > deries of death. Thomas Hamilton did express this in Dunblane_ in
> > > > order to be " related " forever with the kids he loved, he dragged
> them
> > > > with him into death. Hamilton and those children are now bound to-
> > > > gether forever.
> > > >
> > > > Memes spreading pedophilia has a culturally fitness increasing
> function,
> > > > you write. If you mean only pleasure you are, I am sorry to say
wrong.
> > > > Memes of pedophilia don 't spread that easily, memes of the notion
> that
> > > > pedophilia exist does. There is a huge difference !
> > > > Pedophiles and other sexual philias don 't want to expose
themselves,
> > > > they will keep their memes for themselves or will seek others along
> > > > other ways, more secundary ways of communication, like Internet,
where
> > > > they can communicate with eachother without being spotted.
> > > >
> > > > The influence of cultural, social, moral, ethical aspects is of
course
> > > very
> > > > visible, but that don 't solve our problem.
> > > > Most sexual philias have a common " sexual identity crisis " as
their
> > > > backbone. It is that, that we in some way must rebuild. Locking them
> > > > up in psychiatric institutes is no solution, we need to give them
> treat-
> > > > ment, no punishment.
> > > > Therefor, in realm of the title of this thread and in order to make
> the
> > > > difference between patronizing and inspiring I would like to add the
> > > > following.
> > > >
> > > > I get inspired by the technologies like nano- technology and
Holodeck-
> > > > technology to help those people, but I won 't allow, to some degree
> > > > such technologies influence, disrupt, disstress my personal life.
> > > > These are complete different things.
> > > > The point is that pedophilia got a genetic component present in its
> > > > bias, but that the extend of the philia is memetic.
> > > > In their attempts to satisfiy a " genetic need ", such people make
up
> > > > curious memetical decisions which are blocked by political,
cultural,
> > > > social and ethical, than more " fit " memes.
> > > > But I am wondering though, if that is not a ' wrong ' way of seeing
> the
> > > > things !?
> > > >
> > > > In the after- days of the Dutroux- affair in Belgium, fathers and
man
> in
> > > > particular had troubles to express their feelings towards children
and
> > > > especially to their own, in order not be catogorised as a possible
> pedo-
> > > > phile. Memes about the notion of pedophilia spread throughout the
> > > > land, they were fit allright, but had no increasing function
> whatsoever.
> > > > On the contrary, the notion still haunts us !!
> > > > Where I hoped that the Dutroux- case would open up the way for
> > > > a more tolerant effect towards sexuality, it descreased the whole
> > > > issue towards interpretations of the 18/ 19 century. We must start
> > > > all over again....
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Kenneth
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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