Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id IAA04245 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:40:52 GMT Message-ID: <001301c16055$3ff6a560$e89ebed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: "memetics" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: Fw: Fitness increment hypothesis Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:39:07 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > Hi Philip,
> > > > >
> > > > > In your attempt to identify meme- categories by their pincipal
> fitness
> > > > > increasing componenets, I think, from my POV anyway that you
missed
> > > > > a point.
> > > > > I agree with your list sofar, and I agree with Ray also that for
> > philias
> > > > and
> > > > > others it is more complicated than that, but where I am getting at
> is
> > > that
> > > > > each category mentioned upon your list can be devided into two
> parts.
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, sport memes, their fitness components are biological
as
> > > > > well as cultual/ social, but they can also be inspiring or they
can
> be
> > > > > patro-
> > > > > nizing.
> > > > > Sport- memes as to be inspiring can be the onset for others to do
> more
> > > > > sport, to get healthty...and in that case the biological/ cultural
> > > fitness
> > > > > is in
> > > > > the clear. But they are not if those sport- memes are imposed upon
> us.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don 't like very mush sport, I do a lot for charity, I am not
> > > religious,
> > > > > I don 't let technology/ science/ fads and fashion memes influence
> my
> > > > > life, politics and law- memes are not my best friends, I am not
> > > interested
> > > > > in art, mythology, mysticism and etc, I like reading the stuff and
I
> > got
> > > a
> > > > > steady job,.... in how far these categories increase or descrease
my
> > > > > personal cultural/ biological and social fitness is yet to be seen
> > > though
> > > > !
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you think that doing more sport really increases my biological/
> > > > cultural
> > > > > fitness, that by doing far more for charity than others I
descrease
> my
> > > > > cultural fitness !?
> > > > > I don 't, for the one reason that for example I do not increase my
> > > > niceness
> > > > > factor as perceived by the community ( most of the charity workers
> are
> > > > > not that keen on publicity), but by doing it I increase the
> > inspiring-
> > > > > notion
> > > > > of this fact. Helping people out is not an one- day- job !
> > > > > By doing more for charity helps maybe the cultual fitness in its
> > whole,
> > > > and
> > > > > maybe on an individual/ personal level it helps my biological/
> > cultural
> > > > > fitness
> > > > > as well, but that is not the main objective.
> > > > >
> > > > > The same can be said for the job- memes, it helps you to make a
> > living,
> > > > > but once again, imposed upon you as some general rule, it won 't
> work.
> > > > > To get throught life, a job is not a necessity. You can, atleast
in
> > > > Belgium,
> > > > > live from what you get from the social welfare and charity.
> > > > > If that is your ultimate goal in life, maybe you can jeapardize
your
> > > > > primarily
> > > > > biological fitness, but I think not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or do you think that ' getting a job ' is related to an increased
> > > > biological
> > > > > fitness !? People without a job get offspring, are interested in
> art,
> > > > > science,
> > > > > technology and fashion, they are politcal conscient ( more than we
I
> > > sup-
> > > > > pose) but saying that they than increase or descrease their
> > biological/
> > > > > cultural and social fitness sounds a lot like elitism to me.
> > > > > Ae you saying that those of us who do not like sport, does a lot
for
> > > > > charity, one
> > > > > who is not religious, one who do not like technology, does not
> follow
> > > the
> > > > > latest rules in fashion, one who is not interested in politics and
> > art,
> > > > does
> > > > > read books about mysticism and occult, does not have a job,....or
> vice
> > > > versa
> > > > > is of a lower/ higher social/ biological/ cultural " order " !?
> > > > > Inspiring or patronizing !?
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Kenneth
> > > > >
> > > > > > I will now make a list of meme-categories and try to identify
> there
> > > > > principal
> > > > > > fitness increasing components.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sport memes: biological as well as cultural. Improve physical
> > fitness
> > > > and
> > > > > > social fitness (bonding, contacts) especially so with team
sports.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Charity memes: cultural. Increases niceness factor of the
> > > philanthropist
> > > > > > as perceived by the community (social fitness). The same goes
for
> > > human
> > > > > > interspecific altruism. Side-note: both actually decrease rather
> > than
> > > > > > increase the biological fitness of the bearers of such memes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Religious memes: cultural. Increases spiritual fitness. Although
> > being
> > > > > > an imaginary fitness this does not matter to its hosts who
> consider
> > it
> > > > > > genuine. For example: regarding the terrorist-bombings of
> > > 11-september,
> > > > > > memes were deployed by religious authorities to cause great
boosts
> > of
> > > > > > spiritual fitness on adoption by the would-be suicide bombers.
> Hence
> > > > > > significant numbers of potential bombers lign up to lay down
their
> > > lives
> > > > > > upon infection by such memes (mind virii).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Technology/science memes: biological and cultural. Technology
and
> > > > science
> > > > > > serve to improve standards of living. For instance: medical
> science
> > > > works
> > > > > > biologically fitness enhancing primarily whereas mathematics
works
> > > > > cultural
> > > > > > fitness enhancing mostly as it stimulates logical thinking which
> is
> > > > useful
> > > > > > in society.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fads/fashion memes: cultural. Not giving response to such memes
> may
> > > > > predispose
> > > > > > you with a - often only perceived - lower than average social
> > status.
> > > > > > Sometimes, however, it is quite vital to give hearing to a
> fad-meme
> > in
> > > > > order
> > > > > > to stave off a social death. For example: being a kid in Denmark
> > means
> > > > you
> > > > > > are socially seriously impaired if you are not in the possession
> of
> > a
> > > > > > cellular phone. 90 % of all appointments between Danish kids are
> > > > arranged
> > > > > > by cellular phone. Not having one means few if not no
appointments
> > and
> > > > > thus a
> > > > > > low social fitness ensues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Political/law memes: cultural. Aim to establish and maintain
> social
> > > > > coherence.
> > > > > > By not having them, society would crumble and anarchy would
> prevail.
> > > > Since
> > > > > > high levels of society generally go hand in hand with high
levels
> of
> > > > > > biological fitness, memes of this sort also aim to warrant or
> > increase
> > > > > > biological fitness.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Art: biological and cultural. Though predominantly cultural, the
> act
> > > of
> > > > > > performing art works good both for `body and soul' and thus
serves
> > to
> > > > > increase
> > > > > > biological fitness too (consider martial arts for example).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mythology/occult/mysticism: cultural. Prior to the advent of
> science
> > > and
> > > > > > a universal rational enlightenment, memes of this category were
> > > > > > regarded to have true explanatory powers on how the world
worked.
> > They
> > > > > > were considered to be social and spiritual fitness increasing.
> > > > > > Today, however, most of the ideas are hopelessly outdated and,
> where
> > > > > > necessary, superseded by more rational alternatives.
Nonetheless,
> > they
> > > > > still
> > > > > > serve to increase cultural fitness as they make good
story-telling
> > and
> > > > > > movie-scripts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Job memes: primarily biological as they are a means to make a
> > living.
> > > If
> > > > > any of
> > > > > > the previous meme categories are exploited on a professional
level
> > the
> > > > > > biological fitness increasing feature is even more emphasized.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does anyone know of any other categories that I have missed? Any
> > other
> > > > > > comments are welcome too, of course.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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