Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA08704 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 24 Jul 2001 02:20:21 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [209.240.220.151] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Memes and Archetypes Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:17:14 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F1401PN92vob16DpXca000039e0@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2001 01:17:14.0990 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F8E18E0:01C113DE] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: Julio Varela <jav65@bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk, robin@ii01.org
>Subject: Memes and Archetypes
>Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:49:26 -0400
>
>Hello All!
>
> I'm working on a dissertation that has led me to consider what,
>if anything, can be said about a possible relationship between memes and
>Jungian archetypes. I would greatly appreciate hearing your opinions on
>this matter. If you all know of anybody working on this idea, or any
>scholarship that is out there, please email me (and share it with the
>list as well!). Thanks in advance.
>
>
First it might be a good thing to establish that Dawkinsian "memes" and
Jungian "archetypes" indeed exist. Memes are supposedly culturally
transmitted and are somewhat akin as puppet masters to Jung's concept of
complexes which supposedly reside in the personal unconscious. Archetypes
are at best genetically transmitted residing in what Jung called the
"collective unconscious". Their puppet strings stem, at best, from the
genes.
You might read some of E. O. Wilson's talk about culturgens and epigenetic
rules. I could stand to follow this advice sometime soon myself ;-)
In culture archetypes might correspond to deep seated themes which are more
or less homologous across cultures reflecting human common ancestry where
memes are more superficial and ephemeral spur of the moment sorts of things
that could ride, in some cases, atop the archetypal themes. If one thinks of
a leash between genes and memes the archetypal themes would show greater
leashing, perhaps in the sense connoted by Wilson's culturgens where memes
are not usually as constrained within the grooves of an epigenetic
landscape.
I obviously have not given this much thought lately. I leave it for others
to expand or hopefully improve my babble above.
Again we might want to consider whether Jungian archetypes, Dawkinsian memes
or both concepts together inform us about real world psychological
phenomena. I'm lukewarm to cold on either, but it's an interesting
connection to ponder for fun.
Jungian concepts have unfortunate spooky associations due to some of his
mystical or parapsychological meanderings. The idea of synchronicity baffles
me and probably drives lots of critically minded and skeptic people up the
wall. You might do well to read some of Anthony Stevens's work dressing
Jungian ideas in more sociobiologically, ethologically or evolutionary
psychologically friendly clothing. There's also Joseph Campbell who I have
not had much experience with.
I would also be interested in any work by anyone making theoretical
connection between memes and archetypes.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Jul 24 2001 - 02:24:30 BST