Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA11712 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 23 Jun 2001 04:04:03 +0100 From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 22:06:46 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The Guardian on Information Message-ID: <3B33C176.25503.7F2797@localhost> In-reply-to: <20010622204815.A685@ii01.org> References: <20010622142844.AAA24323@camailp.harvard.edu@[128.103.125.215]>; from wade_smith@harvard.edu on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 10:28:33AM -0400 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On 22 Jun 2001, at 20:48, Robin Faichney wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 10:28:33AM -0400, Wade T.Smith wrote:
> > On 06/21/01 14:53, Robin Faichney said this-
> >
> > >Here's a quote from it:
> >
> > Here's another-
> >
> > >Differentiation came into the universe, creating a pattern that
> > >required information.
> >
> > How anything, at all, ever, could 'require' information, is beyond
> > me.
>
> I suspect that particular writer has an imperfect understanding of the
> issue. The pattern _is_ the information. Or, at least, the pattern
> requires the concept of information for it to be fully understood.
>
> > What patterns _are_ created through the elemental and primal forces
> > of the big bang, by definition, can be analyzed to _provide_
> > information (to information-using entities), but the processes of
> > this creation and even the patterns themselves in no way _require_
> > any information.
> >
> > Perhaps I'm lost, but this classification of information as a
> > necessary and sufficient property of the universe seems specious to
> > me.
>
> Think "structure". Information theory in physics is the treatment of
> structure as an element in itself.
>
What is necessary is matter and energy in pattern, structure or
configuration. Awarenesses become informed concerning such
patterns, structures or configurations, and their attributes, via
perception and/or cognition. Information cannot precede
awareness, for it is necessary for an awareness to become
informed concerning a configuration, for information, a
communication of configuration to an awareness via perception, to
exist.
> --
> Robin Faichney
> Inside Information -- http://www.ii01.org -- "a prime source of
> meta-memes"
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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