Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA20761 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 3 May 2001 02:17:34 +0100 From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 20:20:01 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Information Message-ID: <3AF06BF1.14540.6C1D26@localhost> In-reply-to: <20010502094920.A752@ii01.org> References: <3AEEB6DE.18806.39FF8D@localhost>; from joedees@bellsouth.net on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 01:15:10PM -0500 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On 2 May 2001, at 9:49, Robin Faichney wrote:
> On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 01:15:10PM -0500, joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > On 1 May 2001, at 17:53, Robin Faichney wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 30,
> 2001 at 03:18:11PM -0500, joedees@bellsouth.net wrote: > > > On 30 Apr
> 2001, at 14:05, Robin Faichney wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr > > 29, 2001
> at 05:28:32PM -0500, joedees@bellsouth.net wrote: > > > On 29 > > Apr
> 2001, at 13:13, Robin Faichney wrote: > > > where the > > topic of > >
> interest > > is the relationship between mind and matter, it > > seems
> > > important to me > > to incorporate the latter, which I do by > >
> using > > "information" as the > > concept is used in physics, and > >
> > > differentiating that from the more > > common concept by
> prepending > > > > "physical", thus: "physical information". > > This
> is material > > > > structure. > > > All information is encoded in
> some physical > > > > substrate, so your > addition of "material" is
> redundant. > > > > Not > > so. Physical information, being material
> structure, is unencoded. > > > > This distinguishes it from
> intentional information which is, as you > > > > say, encoded in
> physical information. > > > No, the isolated and > > nonrelational
> structure just sits there, > informing no one. It > > becomes
> information when it informs > someone. You are confusing > > pattern
> or configuration with > information, which must be amenable > > to
> informing. > > > > "Information" is a word that, like every other
> word, can be used any > > way anyone wants to use it. I choose to use
> it in a way that's > > consistent with modern practice in general, and
> its use in physics in > > particular, while very clearly
> distinguishing between such technical > > use ("physical
> information"), and the ordinary concept ("intentional > >
> information"). > > > > Your silliness has exhausted my patience for
> now, so don't expect any > > more responses from me in the near
> future. > > > Physicists are aware of those things to which they refer
> as > information, are they not? In other words, they are INFORMed >
> concerning them. This hardly seems silly, but it DOES seem >
> blindingly obvious.
>
> I've recovered sufficiently to cut'n'paste:
>
> According to Roy Frieden, the laws of physics are generated by the
> attempt to minimize the difference between an entity or system's own,
> physical information, and the information that physicists can obtain
> about it. This account does not get awfully technical, at least as
> regards physics---we've just gone as deep into Frieden's work as we're
> going to go---but this distinction he draws is vital: between physical
> information, which exists for its own sake, and the more usual sort,
> information that's about something. (From
> http://www.ii01.org/physics.html)
>
The Fisher Information distinction is between what information can
be drawn from an object considering Heisenbergian constraints and
the information that would be available in an observationally perfect
world, where observation interactions did not affect the state of the
observed object. In either case, we are talking about observation,
either actual or hypothetical.
> --
> Robin Faichney
> Get your Meta-Information from http://www.ii01.org
> (CAUTION: contains philosophy, may cause heads to spin)
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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