Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA18931 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 2 May 2001 13:17:35 +0100 Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 09:49:20 +0100 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Information Message-ID: <20010502094920.A752@ii01.org> References: <3AED8233.15786.6E25AE@localhost>; <20010501175304.A1297@ii01.org> <3AEEB6DE.18806.39FF8D@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <3AEEB6DE.18806.39FF8D@localhost>; from joedees@bellsouth.net on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 01:15:10PM -0500 From: Robin Faichney <robin@ii01.org> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 01:15:10PM -0500, joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On 1 May 2001, at 17:53, Robin Faichney wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 03:18:11PM -0500, joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > On 30 Apr 2001, at 14:05, Robin Faichney wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr
> > 29, 2001 at 05:28:32PM -0500, joedees@bellsouth.net wrote: > > > On 29
> > Apr 2001, at 13:13, Robin Faichney wrote: > > > where the > > topic of
> > interest > > is the relationship between mind and matter, it > > seems
> > important to me > > to incorporate the latter, which I do by > > using
> > "information" as the > > concept is used in physics, and > >
> > differentiating that from the more > > common concept by prepending >
> > > "physical", thus: "physical information". > > This is material > >
> > structure. > > > All information is encoded in some physical > >
> > substrate, so your > addition of "material" is redundant. > > > > Not
> > so. Physical information, being material structure, is unencoded. > >
> > This distinguishes it from intentional information which is, as you >
> > > say, encoded in physical information. > > > No, the isolated and
> > nonrelational structure just sits there, > informing no one. It
> > becomes information when it informs > someone. You are confusing
> > pattern or configuration with > information, which must be amenable
> > to informing.
> >
> > "Information" is a word that, like every other word, can be used any
> > way anyone wants to use it. I choose to use it in a way that's
> > consistent with modern practice in general, and its use in physics in
> > particular, while very clearly distinguishing between such technical
> > use ("physical information"), and the ordinary concept ("intentional
> > information").
> >
> > Your silliness has exhausted my patience for now, so don't expect any
> > more responses from me in the near future.
> >
> Physicists are aware of those things to which they refer as
> information, are they not? In other words, they are INFORMed
> concerning them. This hardly seems silly, but it DOES seem
> blindingly obvious.
I've recovered sufficiently to cut'n'paste:
According to Roy Frieden, the laws of physics are generated by the
attempt to minimize the difference between an entity or system's own,
physical information, and the information that physicists can obtain
about it. This account does not get awfully technical, at least as
regards physics---we've just gone as deep into Frieden's work as we're
going to go---but this distinction he draws is vital: between physical
information, which exists for its own sake, and the more usual sort,
information that's about something.
(From http://www.ii01.org/physics.html)
-- Robin Faichney Get your Meta-Information from http://www.ii01.org (CAUTION: contains philosophy, may cause heads to spin)=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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