Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id AAA01410 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:18:55 +0100 From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:21:33 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Determinism Message-ID: <3AD8952D.31403.642ADD@localhost> In-reply-to: <001e01c0c46b$ad3ee960$5eaefea9@rcn.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On 13 Apr 2001, at 18:47, Aaron Agassi wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Determinism
>
>
> > On 13 Apr 2001, at 15:04, Aaron Agassi wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robin Faichney" <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
> > > To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 11:38 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Determinism
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 08:14:48PM -0500, joedees@bellsouth.net
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > On 12 Apr 2001, at 12:44, Robin Faichney wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 10:02:37PM -0500,
> > > > > > joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > > > > > > Scientific conclusion: A (the higher announced
> > > > > > > > decision) causes B
> > > > > > > (the accessing of the particular area of the supporting
> > > > > > > lower
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > material substrate). Once again, it's called science...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I thought you said causal chains can't be traced in such
> > > > > > complex systems as the mind/brain?
> > > > > >
> > > > > Not precisely, down to the specific neurons, axons, synapses
> > > > > and codings involved, but to the general cortical areas
> > > > > subtending particular cognitive functions, such as modes of
> > > > > perception or memory, yes. We are ourselves the
> > > > > self-testified ("I;m gonna read the text now, I'm gonna listen
> > > > > to the music now, etc.) causes of these PET-scan recorded
> > > > > neural effects.
> > > >
> > > > So we can't actually trace causality, but we can suppose it to
> > > > exist wherever it seems to be required? That's convenient.
> > > >
> > > It is a perfectly good hypothesis, that effects of unknown origin
> > > may also be caused, causation having previously been observed,
> > > explaining all manner of other effects. This hypothesis still
> > > entails somewhat less sheer supposition than any competing
> > > hypothesis of which I am aware.
> > >
> > It entails the massive sheer supposition that a quality observed in
> > some things but not in others (such as P-E pairs, brownian motion
> > and human freedom) generalizes to subsume not only those things, but
> > all unobserved things as well, throughout our entire cosmos and
> > psyche.
>
> And yet, it remains the most elegant hypothesis, among those known
> thus far. The others demanding some unknown and unnecessary entity.
>
Causality is unknown concerning th P-E pair, merely assumed (by
some), and it's necessity has been only shown (by them) to exist
in their minds. It is simple (istic) indeed to claim that everything is
caused (although the camel problem of the first cause is forever
nosing its way under the tent of complacency), but remember what
Neitszche said:
"All truth is simple; is this not DOUBLY a lie?"
>
> > > > --
> > > > Robin Faichney
> > > > Get your Meta-Information from http://www.ii01.org
> > > > (CAUTION: contains philosophy, may cause heads to spin)
> > > >
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> >
> >
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>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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