Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id BAA23317 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 12 Apr 2001 01:03:33 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [209.240.220.143] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Determinism Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:59:30 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F147Yf0scL9NtDEJmGz00005986@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2001 23:59:30.0325 (UTC) FILETIME=[72A67450:01C0C2E3] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: Determinism
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:35:33 -0500
>
>On 9 Apr 2001, at 16:05, Robin Faichney wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 09:13:54AM -0400, Wade T.Smith wrote:
> > >
> > > Of course, the explanation for step two (as in that famous comic)
> > > that they do use is "then a miracle occurs" which is the
> > > time-honored hand-wave of the theologically biased.
> >
> > Now what does that remind me of? I know -- "top-down causation"! :-)
> >
>Miracles are then predicted and observed every day in PET-scan
>labs all over the world. Some would call it science.
> > --
>
>
Please elaborate on how "top-down causation" has been demonstrated by P.E.T.
Would the entity which constitutes the "top" itself emerge from something
that is indeed below? Could this "top" be subject to reduction?
I could envision a so-called "top" element stemming from other elements
projecting causal arrows into it from below and itself sending causal arrows
downward to other elements, but a full-blown "top" element not derived from
other ements would have came into existence out of thin air now wouldn't it?
In essence the "top" decomposes into lower level elements. Whatver emerges
from the lower levels would be responsible for influencing other lower level
ememnt, which is the same as saying lower level elemnts communicate through
an elaborate causal web (or nexus) to influence other lower level elements.
Would "top-down causation" thus vaporize upon closer inspection?
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