Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA19949 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:34:59 +0100 Message-ID: <009e01c0c1e3$ec37f100$5eaefea9@rcn.com> From: "Aaron Agassi" <agassi@erols.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <013f01c0bd6b$21682e80$5eaefea9@rcn.com>; <3AD133AA.6664.BBCD42@localhost> <00ca01c0c113$29cfd680$5eaefea9@rcn.com> <20010409183947.A685@reborntechnology.co.uk> <003001c0c120$2cb138a0$5eaefea9@rcn.com> <20010410091320.A553@reborntechnology.co.uk> <005901c0c1de$6e89d0c0$5eaefea9@rcn.com> <20010410182526.A547@reborntechnology.co.uk> Subject: Re: Determinism Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:30:22 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Faichney" <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Determinism
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:51:04PM -0400, Aaron Agassi wrote:
> > > > > > > Which is quite strange, considering that objectivity is
> > unattainable;
> > > > > > > the best we can do is intersubjective agreement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Never the less, we still seek to improve our knowledge of truth
> > > > > > (correspondence to reality). And besides subjectivity, there is
also
> > > > > > relativity. And the question remains whether subjective freedom
is
> > > > illusory
> > > > > > or simply relative to the subjective frame of reference, thus as
> > > > objectively
> > > > > > real as superdeterminism, globally.
> > > > >
> > > > > What does "relative to the subjective frame of reference" mean?
> > > > >
> > > > The subjective frame of reference in which freedom obtains, and
choices
> > must
> > > > be made in imperfect knowledge, in no way contradicts with the
global
> > view
> > > > that must be superdeterministic.
> > >
> > > OK. I was just checking. I'm not sure superdeterminism is necessary,
but
> > > I'm in broad agreement with this.
> > >
> > > > Freedom is subjective, not illusory.
> > >
> > > Agreed.
> > >
> > > > A frame of reference is a point of view from a particular position
in
> > space
> > > > time, or other particular situation.
> > >
> > > My quibble, which is quite slight, I suppose, is that "subjective"
already
> > > implies "frame of reference", so I see your formulation as redundant.
> > > I'd say something like "subjective but non-illusory freedom in no way
> > > conflicts with objective determinism".
> > >
> > Well, such Point of View or subjectivity that may well be illusory or
> > misleading, I might not want to compare to Einsteinian frame of
refference.
>
> I was quite sure you were taking the opposite view. I give up.
>
Huh?
> --
> Robin Faichney
> Get your Meta-Information from http://www.ii01.org
> (CAUTION: contains philosophy, may cause heads to spin)
>
> ===============================================================
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>
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