Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA13093 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 31 Mar 2001 18:46:27 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [209.240.220.223] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: it can't happen here.... Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:42:19 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F146E1ioWwr2UAaTzvb000023c9@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2001 17:42:20.0093 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF6FD6D0:01C0BA09] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: it can't happen here....
>Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 13:14:18 +0100
>
>On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 02:14:08AM -0500, Scott Chase wrote:
> >
> > >I missed a couple of messages there, but I can tell you the Freudian/
> > >Adlerian/Jungian approach, generally refered to as dynamic
>psychotherapy
> > >or psychodynamic therapy, is alive and well in the UK.
> > >
> > >
> > Watered down Nietzsche....all of it. Well, Fritz did have an impact,
>which
> > at least Jung would more openly acknowledge than Freud anyway.
>
>Did Nietzche say anything about the unconscious?
>
>
Some of his ideas are related to the way others have explored the concept of
the unconscious in later works. The unconcious as a concept did not start
from scratch with Freud. It was already "in the air" so to speak within the
European intellectual climate. Authors such as Carl Gustav Carus and Eduard
von Hartmann had approached the unconscious in a less formal manner than
Freud, from what I gather. Goethe's _Faust_ had its unconscious elements.
Kant opened up an interesting dichotomy with his notions of phenomenal and
noumenal. Schopenhauer co-opted this with the idea/representation and will
respectively. Nietzsche in _Birth of Tragedy_ explored a parallel of the
Apollonian and Dionysian elements, which I recall being somehow tied to
Freud's ego and id and something called the secondary and primary processes.
Nietzsche also scooped Freud on repression in one of his aphorisms and from
what I gather Nietzsche coined the id (*das Es*) which filtered to Freud via
someone named Groddeck. Nietzsche's alter ego Zarathustra could be
considered as a journey into the unconscious realm (of Fritz's febrile
brain) and parallels Jung's creative illess which brought his inner voices
of Philemon ("wise old man") and Salome ("anima") to us. Interestingly,
Nietzsche was infatuated with a woman named Lou Salome. I could connect more
dots, but I'm having trouble remembering all the details.
The above is an unpolished bunch of jibberish, which has bubbled up from my
readings. I'll trying to flesh it out one of these days.
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