Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA13773 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:38:41 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745D02@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: The Demise of a Meme Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:35:27 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Yes, but Galileo's life was at stake over the principles which he troubled
over sticking to, but he did so in the end.
Professional death can be another risk- like that bloke who came up with
continental drift, or Alvarez's catastrophism theory over the dinosaurs
extinction- but such people stick to to their theories, and those who turn
out to be right we celebrate their determination, those who turn out to
bewrong we condemn their obstinacy.
Then of course there's Scopes monkey trial.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: wilkins
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:37 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: The Demise of a Meme
>
> <<File: wilkins.vcf>>
> Vincent Campbell wrote:
> >
> > Galileo.
>
> > > From: wilkins
>
> > > Richard Brodie wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Science is most certainly not memeless. It is a set of carefully
> crafted
> > > > memes designed to produce reliable knowledge and theories through
> > > > observation and hypothesis. People have died to propagate the memes
> of
> > > > science.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Who, exactly? Are you referring to the Minchurist-Lysenkoist
> movements?
> > > Or to what deaths? I can think of several candidates but not many who
> > > died *because* of their memes.
> > >
>
> Galileo most assuredly did not die, at least due to his heliocentric
> views. I thought Richard might have meant Giordano Bruno, but he was
> more likely burned because of his theological rather than his scientific
> memes. Arguably Alan Turing was hounded to his death, but this was due
> to his homosexuality rather than his beliefs about thinking machines.
> I'm hard-pressed to think of anyone other than the pre-Lysenko
> Mendelians who died in Gulags who died for reasons related to their
> scientific views, and even these died because of a conflict in secular
> politics rather than scientific views.
>
> One of the things that characterises science, and the processes of
> selection of scientific memes, is that people do *not* die as a result
> of memetic competition.
>
> Cheers
> --
> John Wilkins, Head, Graphic Production, The Walter and Eliza Hall
> Institute of Medical Research, Melbourne, Australia
> Homo homini aut deus aut lupus - Erasmus of Rotterdam
> <http://www.users.bigpond.com/thewilkins/darwiniana.html>
>
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