Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id WAA07363 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:57:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.240.221.86] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:54:59 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F204Rf3sllNY30kkZIh00009731@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2001 22:54:59.0250 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1D44920:01C099FD] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution
>Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:57:45 +0100
>
>Hi Mark,
>You wrote,
>
> > As usual, I'm using the neural-meme, so the problem of ideas passing to
> > soma is not a problem. In neural-meme theory, the neural system is
> > partially self-organizing due to energy being passed through the system
> > (energy flow is produces self-organization of the media it passes
> > through). The genetic framework provides the substrate, the
> > self-organization produces the earliest memory organization. As the
>neural
> > memory gets larger and more refined, it starts recording memories of
> > environmental stimuli, allowing cultural replication.
> >
> > Ideas are the phenotypes of neural-memes, memory organization
>(neural-meme
> > based) is the genotype.
>
>Wouldn 't it be better to use the viral- meme !?
>If you do you can include the immune system in your concept and the
>passing of ideas to soma and germline wouldn 't be a problem at all.
>Roughly spoken of course and in consideration you didn 't do it already.
>
>
I don't discount possible interrelations between memtal states and the
function of the immune system, though I don't know enough to pass judgement
either way. I think there's a hybrid field known as psychoneuroimmunology
which deals with these issues, but I don't think that psychological function
would impinge on immune function in the way you seem to be implying. If you
look at ideas as mind viruses in a metaphorical sense, this doesn't mean you
can take this virus notion literally. Can viral ideas be said to possess
actual concrete epitopes (antigenic determining regions) which are responded
to by antibody secreting B-lymphocytes or by the receptors of T-lymphocytes?
Would an infectious religious sentiment imprint a viral mnemon in my
mindbrain which would produce a reponse *somehow* by lymhocytes specific to
this viral mnemon's antigenic profile? Then a supposed retrovector could
*somehow* capture some RNA corresponding to this antigenic profile and
shuttle it into the germ-line to be passed into the next generation.
This seems to be an implication of what you are speculating above and seems
about as likely as a "mind retrovirus" reverse transcribing itself directly
into the DNA of a germ cell which probably wouldn't even make for good
science fiction.
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