Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA05946 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:04:07 GMT Message-ID: <001401c0999f$5b8d2380$0d0fbed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: "memetics" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745C64@inchna.stir.ac.uk> <000701c09857$675d0520$400abed4@default> <20010217090353.A586@reborntechnology.co.uk> Subject: Re: Genome Project Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:43:14 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Genome Project
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 09:30:32PM +0100, Kenneth Van Oost wrote:
> >
> > That is, when the memes came into existence were there than more
> > genes with only one function and did the memes took over from the
> > genes along the line of evolution !?
I'm sorry, Kenneth, but if you think there's any way that memes could
> have taken over from genes, then you need to go back and reread the
> basic texts. Darwin's Dangerous Idea, by Dennett, will give you a solid
> grounding in both the principles of genetics and memetics.
Hi Robin,
Fair enough !
But I don 't " think " that in the way you think I do, though !
To recap let me use some words of Jess Tauber on this.
" the more a body has to do, the larger the numbers of gene products
needs to be, specialized to do ever more detailted work in larger num-
bers of " compartments ". The number of gene products can be increased
either by simply increasing the numbers of genes, or having the abilty to
edit. ( Post 16 Feb 2001)
This is mine,
The more a body has to do, and that includes substain the mind with
knowledge and therefor in a way with memes, the larger the numbers
of gene products needs to be, ( that is more translations into proteins,
I suspect), specialized to do ever more detailted work in larger numbers
of " compartments " .
So, IMO more transcriptions are getting more work done...on a genetic
level and that work can still be improved by increasing the numbers of
genes, or having the ability to edit.
How would a gene edit still more info to get her work done !? By lots
of numbers of knobs, switches and interconnections made between sepe-
rate genes. I buy that.
But I don 't buy, still, the fact that ideas, can 't pass somehow the
Weismann 's Barrier.
Genes need info whatever that is, however that info gets in the gene...it
needs info to edit, to translate, to transcript, to switch, to regulate
more,to interact with others,....Genetic info !? Where did it came
from and how would a gene absorb such an info !? And what kind
of info is needed to " change " a gene !? How does a gene select
that info !? Along those lines of Darwinian selection, variation and
replication !?
Too slow !!
IMO, still, gene products can be permeable with things like memetic info.
That info allowes the gene to " mutate " and that cell is than to be
inherited by the progeny.
That is what I mean by ' memes took over from the genes '.
If we look at the outcome of the genome project, 30. 000 genes with in-
structions and the rest is waste of the evolution process, only with those
genes and their instructions/ info we can 't built societies as we did.
I go along with the statement that genes or gene products made an en-
vironment wherein memes could strive and can propagate, but in a way
the genes are loosing the battle and in that way memes drive genes.
That is, genes are ' form ', memes are the fill up...memes are how and
in what manner the gene 's expression gets completed.
Like Jess Tauber said, and I agree, we, as memetic vehicles can alter
the system,...we ( and our memes) can change the drawing hand in
either way.
Hopes this helps,
Best
Kenneth
( I am ,because we are)
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