Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA25421 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:31:01 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745C74@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:30:11 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Yeah but why did everybody copy the idiot, not the film?
I've just thought of another example, stretching back way further-
Shakespeare's Hamlet, where people say 'Alas, poor Yorick, I knew him well',
which is incorrect. Again, why do people copy whoever got it wrong rather
than what was written?
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Wade T.Smith
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:02 pm
> To: Memetics Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution
>
> Hi Chris Taylor -
>
> >Anyway, back to the plot:
> >
> >> The problem is what are the major aspects of the cultural environment
> that
> >> create selection pressures for memes ... how on earth do we identify
> why
> >> 'play it again, sam' prospers rather than the original line?
> >
> >Because (I think) there is an issue of a sort of compatibility. I would
> >think that:
> >
> >1) The fitter versions of these memes in some sense resemble more
> >closely something generic about what is already resident in the mind in
> >which they undergo their process of selection. Play it again Sam is more
> >compatible with our idea about the 'cool' lines 'cool' people utter
> >(effectively in this instance there has been a group rewriting of the
> >script to give the major character a major, punchy line).
> >
> >2) This is a classic meme because it is fairly self sufficient. Even
> >without knowledge of Bogart or the film it implies a whole scenario to
> >most of us. A guy who is self-assured, who likes something enought to
> >want to hear it again but isn't overly excited/happy. There's a lot in
> >there, and yet only the most generic cultural features are exploited.
> >The point of a good meme in *this* sense is to be small, info packed and
> >self-sufficient (given simple culture-environs assumptions, kind of like
> >minimal growth media). "You feeling lucky punk?" is another (although
> >less used because of its threatening nature) again it contains much in a
> >little space, and makes few assumptions about prior knowledge because it
> >exploits what is generic about our culture. You don't have to have even
> >heard of Dirty Harry, you could just assume its something like that.
> >
> >These sorts of memes are more like viruses in that they have almost
> >nothing to them (compare, say, Catholicism or elephants), yet because
> >they are fine tuned to their environment, they do very well. Hook lines
> >in pop song choruses are another (you rarely remember the relevant
> >verses).
> >
> >This is the bottom of the meme size scale though, and unfortunately the
> >focus of most pop memetics. Higher order structures should not be
> >ignored (organisms, ecosystems).
> >
> >Time I stopped warbling, Chris.
>
> In actual and vivid fact, the "how on earth do we identify why 'play it
> again, sam' prospers rather than the original line?" problem is simple to
> the point of completeness- some blinking asshole said it wrong.
>
> Because, there ain't no 'right' fit in a land of constantly changing
> sizes.
>
> - Wade
>
> ===============================================================
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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