Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA27463 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:55:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.240.220.223] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:52:34 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F148A84m0IG5tHqAIrr00001370@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2001 23:52:34.0431 (UTC) FILETIME=[352590F0:01C0922A] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: "Wade T.Smith" <wade_smith@harvard.edu>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: "memetics list" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution
>Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:20:56 -0500
>
>On 02/08/01 15:42, Kenneth Van Oost said this-
>
> >If we consider that Memetic evolution has apparent Lamarckian quali-
> >ties, like Able said, than Lamarckian evolution is part of the process of
> >life and in that respect there must be "some" Lamarckian mechanism at
>work.
>
>And that is the argument people who claim that astrology works use, too.
>I.e. - Since we can see these patterns, there must be some pattern-making
>process....
>
>It is the intelligent design error looked at sideways.
>
>The mechanism itself, the lamarckian mechanism, has been shown, I would
>think with certitude, not to exist in nature at all.
>
Chopping tails off rodents is quite convincing, enough to extend across the
whole of nature.
Were you talking about use/disuse or were you generally referring to the
inheritance of acquired characters? I don't think either has been shown to
be a major force in evolution, but I'd not make such sweeping statements
against Lamarckian or neo-Lamarckian phenomena.
Some people seem to think that cultural phenomena exhibit a Lamarckian
quality. I can't say I'm convinced either way.
The two possibilities I've taken notice of recently with biological and
evolutionary implications are retrovectors transporting information of an
adaptive nature into the germ-line and whether methylation patterns in DNA
can pass between generations. I don't know whether these possibilities are
actualities or if so whether one can call them Lamarckian. The retrovector
notion almost seems Darwinian, in the sense of gemmules.
Another consideration would be the so-called Baldwin effect, but this could
probably be non-Lamarckian.
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