Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA16373 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:15:14 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:55:28 +0000 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution Message-ID: <20010206155528.B984@reborntechnology.co.uk> References: <3A7F8CB0.27790.1DF1843@localhost>; <20010206132231.B550@reborntechnology.co.uk> <3A7FAE80.29525.263345D@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i In-Reply-To: <3A7FAE80.29525.263345D@localhost>; from joedees@bellsouth.net on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 07:57:52AM -0600 From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 07:57:52AM -0600, joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
> >
> > I wasn't aware that free will showed up on PET scans.
> >
> When an area of the brain is used more, it burns more of the
> isotopic sugar injected into the subject, and the isotopes are
> released. These isotopes, and the locations from where they are
> released, DO show up on the PET scans, and conclusively
> demonstrate that the areas of the brain which are activated are to a
> significant degree a matter of conscious choice.
Where, exactly, is the conclusive evidence of the involvement
of consciousness?
> Or how do you
> THINK they do all those PET scan memory, perception, etc.
> studies? By asking their subjects to think, perceive, etc., and
> guess what? They can choose to do so and have it demonstrably
> happen. This research has been going on for over a DECADE,
> Robin; where have you been?
Right here. I know about these experiments. I just don't understand
how you get objective evidence of consciousness out of them.
> > And would you say that the strengthening and myelinization of pathways
> > enhances or diminishes freedom of the will???
> >
> It shows that if one perseveres, one can change one's own mind in
> desired directions not just in the short term, but also in the long
> term, or what's a college education for?
That I CAN change, in the direction I want to, is one of my most
cherished beliefs. But that is a different realm of discourse, a
different language game, from the details of neural mechanics. Which is
why I have no difficulty in viewing the latter as entirely deterministic.
If only we can recognise the profound importance of context, due to which
our concepts change their significance from one area of application to
another, then we can have all the self-determination we want, without
having to believe in such chimera as top-down (or bottom-up) causation.
-- Robin Faichney robin@reborntechnology.co.uk=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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