Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA13227 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:46 GMT From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 06:24:10 -0600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution Message-ID: <3A7F988A.11856.20D6639@localhost> In-reply-to: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745C38@inchna.stir.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >> I wouldn't dispute the idea that a difference between
> culture and > >> nature is the notion of "choice" (although I suspect
> philosophically > this is > >> actually quite a complex concept), but
> choice isn't everything. Lots > of >
> <I would dispute this. Choice is the end-result of a series of
> retained
> > successful past trials and errors, or it is arbitrary and there is
> > no correlation between the choices made and the success of these
> > choices. This is, after all, the implication of Hume's problem of
> > induction. This in no way differs qualitatively from what occurs in
> > "nature" (nor should it, if humans are part of nature).>
> >
> Well isn't this the old chesnut of other organisms using trial and
> error whilst humans make informed choices? I'm not saying I buy into
> that, I was just questioning the idea that appeared to be presented
> that memetics was grounded in choice (in the sense of conscious,
> motivated and informed decision making).
>
>
> > >> people follow all sorts of trends, customs etc. without knowing
> > >> why
> > (what
> > >> for) or the origins of such customs, but just do so. A recent
> > anecdotal
> >
> <As Dave Rindos observed in one of his essays, we can treat human >
> intentions as a Gaussian distribution and so no different to mutations
> > or recombination in genetic populations. It is still subjected to >
> selection and drift.> >
> Yep, which is why culture can be seen as an evolutionary process,
> conscious and deliberate choice needn't be a factor.
Actually, it's not an all-or-nothing thing. Some memes are adopted
intentionally (such as computer literacy, in my case) and some are
adopted inadvertantly (such as an annoying pop tune on eternal
loop inside one's head).
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