Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA04610 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:51:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.240.222.130] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: Labels for memes Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 12:48:40 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F10etVoMDrxxnSYe4nh0000e83b@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2001 17:48:40.0793 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5A1CC90:01C08ED2] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
>Subject: RE: Labels for memes
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:53:07 -0000
>
> >> All sorts of processes both external and internal go into
>audience
> > >> decoding of media content, so much so that I just don't see how what
> > >> apparently exists in one mind can appear in another mind (let alone
> > millions
> > >> of others) in exactly the same form as in the original mind.
> >
> <But I don't think anyone is saying it's in exactly the same form.>
>
> Ok, but this is one of the problems I have with the meme in mind
>idea, as I'm not sure how the meme in mind is actually seen.
>
> The notion of the meme involves, as far as I understand it, a
>particular configuration of information that induces it to be expressed (by
>the person it originates in) and then imitated by people exposed to its
>expression. But in order for it to be then passed on to others from those
>first infected people, surely the configuration must be retained in order
>for it to induce expression in those people, and then imitation in others,
>and so on?
>
> We're talking about a particular kind of information that induces
>particular kinds of behaviours, surely there must be some consistency of
>form or pattern in order for it to be transmissable across many generations
>of hosts?
>
>
In whatever it is that I've been doing, I've been preferring to grapple with
"memetics" sort of issues at the surface. Recently, I watched an episode of
a fan club show (IIRC it was on VH1) which looks at the ways various popular
bands have impacted the lives of their fans. One episode was on the band "No
Doubt". I happen to like their music and their lead vocalist with pink hair,
but the hardcore "No Doubt" fans take it to the limit, some of them coloring
their hair pink and doing other things that seem to stem from their
affection for the band. If you were to look at how fans imitate bands or how
other rival bands in the same musical niche emulate the more popular and
successful bands, would trying to figure out how the underpinnings of these
phenomena are encoded in the brain add anything to ones knowledge? That
practice would seem a tad superfluous to me. How would knowing how a
tendency to dye ones hair to match that of a rock music superstar or even
put on face paint to imitate a member of KISS be possible or even add
anything to knowledge of the phenomenon(a) if possible?
I looks like music is a hotbed of trends and general influences which are
culturally transmissible. Look how hiphop has influenced music over the past
couple decades. Hiphop's originator had some influence from artists such as
James Brown and Kraftwerk, which have been sampled in many tracks down
through the years. Would how these influences are encoded in a DJ's brain or
the brains of the people who enjoy and buy the music add anything to ones
understanding of the phenomenon? From collaborations between hiphop and rock
acts like the RunDMC/Aerosmith project and the Public Enemy/Chuck D/Anthrax
project a couple years later, we now see a big influence of hiphop on rock.
Bands like Korn, Limp Biskit, and Kid Rock come to mind. Does how this
hiphop thang is encoded in the brains of the recipient artists and fans make
any significant difference, or can this be treated at the surface merely as
artefact, cultural unit or whatever? I'm not even sure if the hiphop
phenomenon can be reduced to all that many cultural "units", but the
reduction to brain states (mnemons or whatever) may be going way too far. I
guess I'm talking from armchair (literally and figuratively) ignorance
though.
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